1 00:00:04,010 --> 00:00:01,699 this program is brought to you by the 2 00:00:07,369 --> 00:00:04,020 genesis communications network a world 3 00:00:17,190 --> 00:00:07,379 leader in talk radio since 1998 visit 4 00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:29,560 [Music] 5 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:35,070 you're in the para cast the gold 6 00:00:44,899 --> 00:00:39,170 standard of paranormal radio now here's 7 00:00:46,910 --> 00:00:44,909 gene Stein fortunately we have such a 8 00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:46,920 great guest who will probably be doing 9 00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:48,600 most of the talking on this episode of 10 00:00:53,149 --> 00:00:50,729 the power cast that you won't have to 11 00:00:55,850 --> 00:00:53,159 put up with me and my head cold which I 12 00:00:59,209 --> 00:00:55,860 just got like the day before and Chris 13 00:01:01,789 --> 00:00:59,219 has what he calls a Zuni Reservation 14 00:01:04,340 --> 00:01:01,799 crud which is kind of a cold too but it 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:04,350 gets every so often so regardless of 16 00:01:13,219 --> 00:01:07,290 what you call it we're both in less than 17 00:01:17,149 --> 00:01:13,229 ideal shape ever gets me introduce the 18 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:17,159 show we try to be original about it and 19 00:01:23,630 --> 00:01:19,890 dr. Jeffrey Meldrum is a very special 20 00:01:26,749 --> 00:01:23,640 guest well I you know I have stuffed 21 00:01:28,069 --> 00:01:26,759 myself full of cough suppressant and all 22 00:01:31,460 --> 00:01:28,079 the things that go along with having a 23 00:01:34,670 --> 00:01:31,470 really bad respiratory virus actually so 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:34,680 but I'm really excited dr. Meldrum to 25 00:01:39,410 --> 00:01:37,170 have you on the show I've been a huge 26 00:01:41,649 --> 00:01:39,420 fan of your work for four years since 27 00:01:43,730 --> 00:01:41,659 you've you've been in the public eye 28 00:01:48,230 --> 00:01:43,740 anything that I see with your name on it 29 00:01:51,050 --> 00:01:48,240 has instant credibility for me I am an 30 00:01:53,060 --> 00:01:51,060 experienced ER I had my own possible 31 00:01:55,430 --> 00:01:53,070 Bigfoot encounter I didn't see it but I 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:55,440 sure heard it and smelled it so this has 33 00:01:59,210 --> 00:01:57,210 been a subject that has been near and 34 00:02:02,120 --> 00:01:59,220 dear to my heart for for many years and 35 00:02:02,870 --> 00:02:02,130 I I just am so so honored and pleased to 36 00:02:05,750 --> 00:02:02,880 have you on the show 37 00:02:07,430 --> 00:02:05,760 you are known for being one of the very 38 00:02:09,589 --> 00:02:07,440 few credentialed scientists who's been 39 00:02:12,289 --> 00:02:09,599 willing to to say well wait a minute we 40 00:02:14,780 --> 00:02:12,299 can't just throw this out and and call 41 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:14,790 hairy hominids which are found all 42 00:02:18,170 --> 00:02:15,510 around the world 43 00:02:21,170 --> 00:02:18,180 allegedly we just can't call this some 44 00:02:22,670 --> 00:02:21,180 sort of myth or legend there's there's 45 00:02:24,979 --> 00:02:22,680 enough evidence to suggest that this is 46 00:02:27,470 --> 00:02:24,989 something that science should be taking 47 00:02:30,740 --> 00:02:27,480 seriously and at least at least not 48 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:30,750 dismissing it out of hand as many of the 49 00:02:34,670 --> 00:02:32,250 topics we discussed here on the podcast 50 00:02:36,559 --> 00:02:34,680 are dismissed out of hand by the 51 00:02:38,269 --> 00:02:36,569 scientific and academic community so I 52 00:02:42,199 --> 00:02:38,279 prefer to call these subjects proto 53 00:02:43,670 --> 00:02:42,209 scientific subjects so it's really a 54 00:02:45,679 --> 00:02:43,680 an honor and a pleasure again to have 55 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:45,689 you on the show welcome glad to be here 56 00:02:50,929 --> 00:02:46,890 thanks for the thanks for the 57 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:50,939 opportunity to start off Jeff I wanted 58 00:02:55,459 --> 00:02:53,730 to ask you about your interests as Chris 59 00:02:58,789 --> 00:02:55,469 was making clear you're one of the few 60 00:03:00,530 --> 00:02:58,799 academics who tackles subjects of this 61 00:03:03,830 --> 00:03:00,540 nature what attracted you to it 62 00:03:07,789 --> 00:03:03,840 well my my background is in anatomy but 63 00:03:10,699 --> 00:03:07,799 also physical anthropology and and when 64 00:03:14,559 --> 00:03:10,709 I'm not teaching students over a human 65 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:14,569 cadaver I'm doing research on the 66 00:03:19,190 --> 00:03:17,430 evolutionary adaptations of the human 67 00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:19,200 body for our particular mode of 68 00:03:24,589 --> 00:03:21,329 locomotion that is walking on two legs 69 00:03:26,929 --> 00:03:24,599 so the evolution the timing and pattern 70 00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:26,939 of the adaptations associated with 71 00:03:32,119 --> 00:03:30,030 bipedalism have been foremost in my 72 00:03:33,649 --> 00:03:32,129 research interests and so on the one 73 00:03:35,959 --> 00:03:33,659 hand I I grew up in the Pacific 74 00:03:38,509 --> 00:03:35,969 Northwest and certainly was familiar 75 00:03:41,959 --> 00:03:38,519 with the subject of Sasquatch was 76 00:03:44,119 --> 00:03:41,969 introduced to it boy and I was in 1968 77 00:03:46,339 --> 00:03:44,129 when Roger Patterson came through 78 00:03:48,860 --> 00:03:46,349 Spokane Washington and showed his 79 00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:48,870 documentary featuring that famous film 80 00:03:56,050 --> 00:03:51,329 clip 60-second film clip from Blood 81 00:03:57,830 --> 00:03:56,060 Bluff Creek but you know my my real 82 00:04:01,909 --> 00:03:57,840 involvement in this from an academic 83 00:04:05,330 --> 00:04:01,919 point of view came about in 96 when so 84 00:04:07,339 --> 00:04:05,340 it's been 20 years now that I was 85 00:04:09,559 --> 00:04:07,349 brought up face to face with a very 86 00:04:13,189 --> 00:04:09,569 fresh set of footprints and you know 87 00:04:16,219 --> 00:04:13,199 what what could be more fascinating for 88 00:04:19,189 --> 00:04:16,229 a student of human bipedalism than to be 89 00:04:22,670 --> 00:04:19,199 a direct witness to trace evidence of 90 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:22,680 another white people primate and so on 91 00:04:28,159 --> 00:04:25,110 that level on on that academic or 92 00:04:30,649 --> 00:04:28,169 intellectual level it you know it 93 00:04:33,290 --> 00:04:30,659 dovetails with my my research interests 94 00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:33,300 perfectly perfect natural experiment if 95 00:04:37,339 --> 00:04:35,520 such a creature exists to better 96 00:04:40,370 --> 00:04:37,349 understand our own evolutionary history 97 00:04:44,570 --> 00:04:40,380 but it goes without saying that the 98 00:04:46,610 --> 00:04:44,580 subject has this intrinsic quality to it 99 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:46,620 that it's a mystery and the you know 100 00:04:51,740 --> 00:04:48,990 I've always loved the the things that 101 00:04:54,519 --> 00:04:51,750 that were lurking there on the fringes 102 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:54,529 of science of scientific knowledge 103 00:04:56,719 --> 00:04:55,650 because 104 00:04:59,150 --> 00:04:56,729 me science has always been about 105 00:05:01,879 --> 00:04:59,160 exploration I mean I get I'm disciplined 106 00:05:05,749 --> 00:05:01,889 enough that I can put in the hard knocks 107 00:05:10,159 --> 00:05:05,759 and do the wrote a work in in a research 108 00:05:13,610 --> 00:05:10,169 lab or in the field but but for me my my 109 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:13,620 my thrill is in exploration I mean it's 110 00:05:20,290 --> 00:05:16,289 it's in asking questions that have 111 00:05:22,730 --> 00:05:20,300 confounded the experts or have have been 112 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:22,740 you know as you discussed have been 113 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:25,490 neglected or dismissed 114 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:29,610 it's the what-if questions and with a 115 00:05:37,189 --> 00:05:34,530 firm solid footing a basis in in no hard 116 00:05:40,610 --> 00:05:37,199 evidence I mean I I was once confronted 117 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:40,620 by a past department chairman who chided 118 00:05:46,340 --> 00:05:42,990 me by saying well after all Jeff these 119 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:46,350 are just stories I looked at him from 120 00:05:51,110 --> 00:05:48,570 home I said well just stories that leave 121 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:51,120 footprints that shed hair the Void scat 122 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:53,490 the vocal eyes that are witnessed by 123 00:06:00,230 --> 00:05:57,570 credible experienced outdoorsmen and and 124 00:06:01,490 --> 00:06:00,240 hunters and and professionals I said 125 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:01,500 it's al it's a lot more than just 126 00:06:13,490 --> 00:06:11,130 stories yeah well for all the good well 127 00:06:14,779 --> 00:06:13,500 you know we'd get into this later but 128 00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:14,789 I'm sure there is some blowback from 129 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:16,560 from expressing an interest and and 130 00:06:20,629 --> 00:06:18,810 being public about it it's one thing to 131 00:06:22,010 --> 00:06:20,639 have a private interest and have it be 132 00:06:23,330 --> 00:06:22,020 kind of a closeted subject that you're 133 00:06:25,159 --> 00:06:23,340 researching it's another thing to 134 00:06:28,399 --> 00:06:25,169 dovetail your work with other 135 00:06:29,899 --> 00:06:28,409 investigators field field people asked 136 00:06:31,670 --> 00:06:29,909 for it for samples and and be very 137 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:31,680 public about it and you know I want to 138 00:06:35,659 --> 00:06:33,810 get into that's a whole subject in and 139 00:06:37,909 --> 00:06:35,669 of itself but before we get too long 140 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:37,919 down the road here we just have a couple 141 00:06:43,129 --> 00:06:40,289 of minutes left for this segment but you 142 00:06:45,110 --> 00:06:43,139 mentioned seen back as a kid seeing the 143 00:06:48,260 --> 00:06:45,120 patterson-gimlin film where do you come 144 00:06:50,450 --> 00:06:48,270 down on the weather that's a legitimate 145 00:06:54,219 --> 00:06:50,460 piece of visual evidence or well 146 00:06:58,010 --> 00:06:54,229 executed hoax I'm absolutely 100% well 147 00:06:59,629 --> 00:06:58,020 99.99% convinced that that is is 148 00:07:01,640 --> 00:06:59,639 absolutely legitimate 149 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:01,650 I mean I've I've looked at it from so 150 00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:03,930 many different angles if I had nothing 151 00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:06,000 but the footprints that were documented 152 00:07:12,090 --> 00:07:09,220 on that scene let alone the film 153 00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:12,100 shows the correlated actions of the the 154 00:07:17,790 --> 00:07:14,800 foot of the film subject whatever it may 155 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:17,800 be in everyone's mind I would be on that 156 00:07:23,580 --> 00:07:21,010 basis alone convinced but adding to that 157 00:07:27,300 --> 00:07:23,590 as I said that the depiction of the 158 00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:27,310 actual subject not only the the actions 159 00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:30,460 of the foot during those those several 160 00:07:35,250 --> 00:07:33,520 steps but but the anatomy from head to 161 00:07:38,490 --> 00:07:35,260 toe I mean it's a fascinating exercise 162 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:38,500 to just literally go through and examine 163 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:39,610 the anatomy and I do that with my 164 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:42,610 students sometimes my physical therapy 165 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:44,530 students particularly at the last day 166 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:46,090 when we're having to review as we wrap 167 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:48,250 things up sometimes I'll I'll pop this 168 00:07:54,780 --> 00:07:50,410 up on the screen and I've got a very 169 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:54,790 high-quality gif of a clip of a loop of 170 00:08:01,020 --> 00:07:57,850 this thing close-up very crisp very 171 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:01,030 clear you can pick out individual muscle 172 00:08:04,620 --> 00:08:02,530 groups and I'll have them do that I'll 173 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:04,630 say now identify as much of the surface 174 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:06,550 anatomy that you can that you can 175 00:08:10,140 --> 00:08:08,770 observe here and then I go even further 176 00:08:12,150 --> 00:08:10,150 and say now what what is there aught 177 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:12,160 about the way of which it walks because 178 00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:14,470 we will have discussed the determinants 179 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:17,260 of human gait and and some of the 180 00:08:23,990 --> 00:08:20,250 parameters of normal human walking and 181 00:08:26,340 --> 00:08:24,000 there are very dramatic and obvious 182 00:08:29,490 --> 00:08:26,350 contrasts in the way this thing walks 183 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:29,500 it's not simply a man in a fur suit and 184 00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:31,810 anyone who says that just doesn't have 185 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:33,760 the wherewithal to evaluate it with any 186 00:08:40,370 --> 00:08:36,490 credibility right plus the the actual 187 00:08:43,260 --> 00:08:40,380 trackway indicates an animal of 188 00:08:46,950 --> 00:08:43,270 considerable weight right weight and 189 00:08:48,270 --> 00:08:46,960 size exactly yeah it's it's a 190 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:48,280 fascinating oh here we're coming up on 191 00:08:53,190 --> 00:08:50,170 the fiftieth anniversary of that right 192 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:53,200 that film next year and and we're still 193 00:08:57,390 --> 00:08:55,570 having these same conversations I'm you 194 00:08:59,570 --> 00:08:57,400 know a lot of a lot of work has been 195 00:09:02,030 --> 00:08:59,580 done it's interesting that that 196 00:09:05,460 --> 00:09:02,040 perennially that seems that there are 197 00:09:08,610 --> 00:09:05,470 skeptics who take shots at it from 198 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:08,620 various quarters and invariably it 199 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:10,810 emerges even with more luster than it 200 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:13,630 than it had previously many cases were 201 00:09:18,270 --> 00:09:15,610 able to with that renewed interest we're 202 00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:18,280 able to go back at it with technologies 203 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:20,920 that weren't available and and identify 204 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:22,510 details that were complete 205 00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:27,070 be unobserved unobservable back in 1967 206 00:09:31,380 --> 00:09:29,200 when Patterson made the film but are 207 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:31,390 there and with the right technologies 208 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:33,490 can be brought out can be observed can 209 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:36,730 be understood better in ways that you 210 00:09:42,690 --> 00:09:40,090 know a hoax or in 1967 could never have 211 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:42,700 anticipated let alone have incorporated 212 00:09:48,570 --> 00:09:45,850 into footage let's see one break here 213 00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:48,580 guys we have dr. Jeffrey Meldrum and 214 00:09:52,950 --> 00:09:50,830 we're looking at the scientific side of 215 00:09:55,620 --> 00:09:52,960 Bigfoot research to see what kind of 216 00:09:57,690 --> 00:09:55,630 answers we can achieve from it this is 217 00:10:00,060 --> 00:09:57,700 gonna be a real special episode folks so 218 00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:00,070 listen on with gene and Chris you're in 219 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:09,550 the bear guest neighbors I want to tell 220 00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:12,640 you about my favorite graphics app it's 221 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:15,070 the award-winning graphic converter you 222 00:10:19,020 --> 00:10:17,140 know graphic converter is the universal 223 00:10:22,020 --> 00:10:19,030 genius for photo editing on your Mac 224 00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:22,030 join over one and a half million loyal 225 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:24,790 users for this Swiss Army knife photo 226 00:10:29,940 --> 00:10:27,610 editing app it gives you all you expect 227 00:10:32,910 --> 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00:14:32,679 --> 00:14:28,279 caste community forums at forum dot the 299 00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:32,689 para cast calm before we go on we're 300 00:14:37,449 --> 00:14:34,399 doing a real special for the holidays 301 00:14:42,669 --> 00:14:37,459 for the para cast plus and that is I put 302 00:14:44,499 --> 00:14:42,679 up three episodes from our premium area 303 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:44,509 to give you an idea of what it's all 304 00:14:50,289 --> 00:14:46,970 about it goes back to our episode of 305 00:14:53,169 --> 00:14:50,299 February 28th 2016 the tenth anniversary 306 00:14:55,809 --> 00:14:53,179 episode so we have the commercial free 307 00:14:57,699 --> 00:14:55,819 version we have the after the para cast 308 00:14:59,530 --> 00:14:57,709 podcast where we continue that interview 309 00:15:01,479 --> 00:14:59,540 and we've got an interview from the 310 00:15:03,429 --> 00:15:01,489 other side of truth that Paul Kimball 311 00:15:06,039 --> 00:15:03,439 did with the ever controversial dr. 312 00:15:08,169 --> 00:15:06,049 Steven Greer it's all available from our 313 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:08,179 forums and I'll give you an idea of what 314 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:10,970 we offer in the power cast Plus which is 315 00:15:14,499 --> 00:15:12,410 of course the commercial free version of 316 00:15:18,189 --> 00:15:14,509 the show the after the para cast podcast 317 00:15:21,340 --> 00:15:18,199 a growing video library and lots more 318 00:15:25,449 --> 00:15:21,350 and the price begins at $4.99 a month 319 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:25,459 our price cheap check out plus . ^ cast 320 00:15:32,049 --> 00:15:28,910 com PL us doctor para cast com 321 00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:32,059 we had dr. Jeffrey Meldrum he's a 322 00:15:40,329 --> 00:15:35,660 scientist who is exploring the mysteries 323 00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:40,339 of Bigfoot now you're pointing Jeff to 324 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:44,420 your research into how humans began to 325 00:15:49,239 --> 00:15:46,490 walk upright in things like that 326 00:15:54,129 --> 00:15:49,249 do we think Bigfoot is kind of maybe a 327 00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:54,139 lost generation of humanoid I just 328 00:15:59,049 --> 00:15:56,959 didn't die off well certainly the 329 00:16:01,900 --> 00:15:59,059 question is where where would it plug 330 00:16:05,470 --> 00:16:01,910 into the family tree and out how far 331 00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:05,480 afield would we go to include it for me 332 00:16:10,989 --> 00:16:07,660 there are basically I think two 333 00:16:12,759 --> 00:16:10,999 reasonable working hypotheses and 334 00:16:14,439 --> 00:16:12,769 they're that they're simply that I mean 335 00:16:17,970 --> 00:16:14,449 I get kind of gets the cart before the 336 00:16:20,769 --> 00:16:17,980 horse to really expend too much energy 337 00:16:22,869 --> 00:16:20,779 other than to establish a sort of a 338 00:16:26,109 --> 00:16:22,879 theoretical context for considering it 339 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:26,119 but about what sasquatches before we 340 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:28,730 acknowledge that indeed it exists but 341 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:30,230 for me there's there's two possibilities 342 00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,410 one it has well both have been suggested 343 00:16:38,319 --> 00:16:35,600 by by previous investigators and 344 00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,329 researchers I think John Green was one 345 00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:40,639 of the first to suggest a connection 346 00:16:46,780 --> 00:16:43,790 with Gigantopithecus and as well as 347 00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:46,790 there were others back then too but we 348 00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:48,769 know that this giant tape existed in 349 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:52,190 eastern Asia well into the Pleistocene 350 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:54,170 perhaps as recently as two hundred 351 00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:56,510 thousand years ago and so in 352 00:16:59,889 --> 00:16:58,160 Gigantopithecus we have something that's 353 00:17:02,230 --> 00:16:59,899 the right size in the right place at the 354 00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:02,240 right time but others may have have 355 00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:03,980 pointed out we only have jaws and teeth 356 00:17:09,100 --> 00:17:06,799 we don't have any post cranial skeletal 357 00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:09,110 remains that would that would determine 358 00:17:15,250 --> 00:17:12,260 with confidence whether this creature 359 00:17:17,620 --> 00:17:15,260 was upright standing or not there are 360 00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,630 things that in my mind tip the scales in 361 00:17:22,630 --> 00:17:19,280 that direction dr. Krantz made an 362 00:17:24,730 --> 00:17:22,640 argument about the angles of the the 363 00:17:27,819 --> 00:17:24,740 bodies of the thorah mandible that has 364 00:17:31,330 --> 00:17:27,829 been preserved which suggests a position 365 00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:31,340 of the neck forward between those two 366 00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:34,190 halves two sides of the jaw and also 367 00:17:39,460 --> 00:17:35,809 there are things you know that the 368 00:17:42,490 --> 00:17:39,470 shoulder of a large ape especially one 369 00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:42,500 that has you know any inclination to be 370 00:17:46,570 --> 00:17:44,510 climbing up in the trees the shoulders 371 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:46,580 been modified in such a way that walking 372 00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:49,970 on all fours is a bit problematic for 373 00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:51,590 the joints of the wrist and the elbow in 374 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:54,470 the shoulder and this is why chimps and 375 00:17:58,960 --> 00:17:55,970 gorillas one of the reasons why they've 376 00:18:01,720 --> 00:17:58,970 adopted this unusual knuckle-walking 377 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:01,730 stance and have evolved that in concert 378 00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:03,440 a parallel to one another almost 379 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:05,809 certainly on the other hand some would 380 00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:07,910 point to bipedalism as being a very 381 00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:11,270 exclusive adaptation that marks the the 382 00:18:16,419 --> 00:18:13,700 advent of the hominin radiation our our 383 00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:16,429 immediate ancestors and relatives since 384 00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:19,760 the divergence from a ancestor shared 385 00:18:24,580 --> 00:18:22,760 with chimpanzees so some seven million 386 00:18:27,220 --> 00:18:24,590 years ago six to seven million years ago 387 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:27,230 if that's the case I mean the thing that 388 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:29,450 you always have to bear in mind when 389 00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,610 posing this question and there are those 390 00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:33,200 out there you know who advocate this is 391 00:18:38,919 --> 00:18:35,270 just a Lost Tribe of people it's a loss 392 00:18:40,980 --> 00:18:38,929 it's a just a feral human a Homo sapiens 393 00:18:42,510 --> 00:18:40,990 and they've been some more creative 394 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:42,520 hypotheses thrown out 395 00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:44,770 there I guess as well that if we look at 396 00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:47,520 what is it that defines homo that the 397 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:49,990 for the longest time until quite 398 00:18:57,300 --> 00:18:53,710 recently the advent of tool use was the 399 00:18:59,460 --> 00:18:57,310 signature characteristic of the genus 400 00:19:01,640 --> 00:18:59,470 Homo that's going to have to be modified 401 00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:01,650 now just just a couple years ago some 402 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:04,620 discoveries in East Africa have shown 403 00:19:11,010 --> 00:19:08,290 tool marks on an archaeological remains 404 00:19:14,060 --> 00:19:11,020 on bones dating back to a time 405 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:14,070 coincident with late australopithecines 406 00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:17,290 but the point simply is when you look at 407 00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:19,240 Sasquatch there's no there's no material 408 00:19:25,260 --> 00:19:22,030 culture there's no evidence of stone 409 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:25,270 tools or even you know modified sticks 410 00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:27,210 or branches that are that are used 411 00:19:33,150 --> 00:19:30,780 consistently it's all opportunistic 412 00:19:34,650 --> 00:19:33,160 whacking of trees are breaking and 413 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:34,660 brandishing of sticks you know in a 414 00:19:38,790 --> 00:19:37,090 threat display there's no evidence of 415 00:19:40,740 --> 00:19:38,800 home bases there's no evidence of fire 416 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:40,750 control there's no evidence review a 417 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:43,690 complex social structure most sightings 418 00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:45,130 are of solitary individuals most 419 00:19:50,370 --> 00:19:46,900 footprints are of solitary individuals 420 00:19:52,260 --> 00:19:50,380 or females with with offspring in tow so 421 00:19:55,220 --> 00:19:52,270 if it is a hominid it would have to be a 422 00:19:58,290 --> 00:19:55,230 very early radiation early divergence 423 00:20:00,780 --> 00:19:58,300 now one of my predecessors Gordon 424 00:20:03,150 --> 00:20:00,790 Strasburg was a strong advocate for per 425 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:03,160 anthropos it was an interesting when 426 00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:05,110 paranthesis share some of the same kinds 427 00:20:11,310 --> 00:20:08,590 of hypertrophy of the chewing apparatus 428 00:20:15,140 --> 00:20:11,320 that we see in Gigantopithecus big deep 429 00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:15,150 jaws and and thick molar enamel enlarged 430 00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:19,060 enlarged premolars and tiny incisors and 431 00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:22,780 canines non projecting canine teeth 432 00:20:27,390 --> 00:20:24,280 which allows for that side-to-side 433 00:20:30,180 --> 00:20:27,400 motion during chewing and I always kind 434 00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:30,190 of I thought well how how could that be 435 00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:33,190 I mean here the the fossil record for 436 00:20:39,450 --> 00:20:37,900 anthropos you know it ceased about one 437 00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:39,460 and a half million years ago in East 438 00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,030 Africa and and per anthropos only stood 439 00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:45,280 about five and a half you know five foot 440 00:20:50,610 --> 00:20:48,670 eight males perhaps so it's it's the 441 00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:50,620 wrong size in the wrong place at the 442 00:20:55,470 --> 00:20:53,200 wrong time and I thought that would have 443 00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:55,480 ruled it out except that just recently 444 00:20:58,380 --> 00:20:56,470 you 445 00:21:01,620 --> 00:20:58,390 be aware of the discovery of Homo 446 00:21:05,850 --> 00:21:01,630 floresiensis mohabbat in Southeast Asia 447 00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:05,860 with a remarkably recent age of as young 448 00:21:10,169 --> 00:21:08,350 as perhaps 50,000 years now as it's been 449 00:21:12,090 --> 00:21:10,179 modified up a little bit but still 450 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:12,100 50,000 years is just a snap of the 451 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:15,370 fingers in geologic time well how do you 452 00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:17,770 end and everything points to Homo 453 00:21:23,370 --> 00:21:20,830 floresiensis being a very early homo or 454 00:21:24,659 --> 00:21:23,380 even late Australopithecus see skeletal 455 00:21:27,539 --> 00:21:24,669 Anatomy the thing has a brain the size 456 00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:27,549 of a chimpanzee it's it's post cranial 457 00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:29,710 skeleton its lower limbs for example 458 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:31,720 look just like a chimpanzee or an 459 00:21:37,169 --> 00:21:34,450 Australopithecus een so how do you how 460 00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:37,179 do you connect the dots from a late 461 00:21:41,789 --> 00:21:38,260 australopithecines 462 00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:41,799 in East Africa or at the very best 463 00:21:48,210 --> 00:21:45,820 perhaps in Asia Minor making its way all 464 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:48,220 the way to Southeast Asia without 465 00:21:52,049 --> 00:21:50,080 leaving any fossil record in between 466 00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:52,059 that we've discovered yet yeah there's 467 00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:54,159 so much that we don't know yeah yeah 468 00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,200 absolutely so anyway so that's not out 469 00:22:01,740 --> 00:21:58,720 of the question at all either something 470 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:01,750 like a robust australopithecines at that 471 00:22:08,250 --> 00:22:04,210 as it spread its range spread across 472 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:08,260 South Asia into eastern Asia could have 473 00:22:12,830 --> 00:22:11,049 achieved gigantism just as so many other 474 00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:12,840 mammals did during the early Pleistocene 475 00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:16,750 and and expanded his range into North 476 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:19,390 America or Gigantopithecus would be 477 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:22,510 another I know if you go the other way 478 00:22:29,490 --> 00:22:27,010 because the hobbits actually the sort of 479 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:29,500 devolved in terms of their size probably 480 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:31,690 because of the the environment and they 481 00:22:40,919 --> 00:22:38,049 became smaller too let's do our break 482 00:22:43,159 --> 00:22:40,929 guys yeah we've got more to come with 483 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:43,169 dr. Jeffrey Meldrum and Jean and Chris 484 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:46,630 we're learning a lot the scientific look 485 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:49,330 at Bigfoot and the possibilities with 486 00:22:55,170 --> 00:22:59,690 [Music] 487 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:03,650 thank you for listening to GCN 488 00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:08,490 be sure to visit GCN live.com today the 489 00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:10,260 EPA says the air in our homes is up to 490 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:11,760 five times more contaminated than 491 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:14,010 outside air the solution is not just a 492 00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:16,410 filter your air but detox it UV four 493 00:23:21,170 --> 00:23:18,750 life.com now offers a doctor recommended 494 00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:21,180 UV four life.com sterilization unit to 495 00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:24,120 kill over 99% of viruses bacterias molds 496 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:26,100 and dangerous chemicals go to UV four 497 00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:28,770 life.com at promo code 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00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:40,919 expert reputation analysis it's easy to 583 00:26:44,659 --> 00:26:42,750 squash the unfair attacks with our 584 00:26:46,909 --> 00:26:44,669 patented system and the analysis is 585 00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:46,919 absolutely free make the best things 586 00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:49,260 about you jump out in searches protect 587 00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:50,159 your personal and professional 588 00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,799 reputation your business and your income 589 00:26:57,379 --> 00:26:55,200 get your free reputation analysis from 590 00:27:00,080 --> 00:26:57,389 reputation defender calm right now 591 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:00,090 call 883 one zero seven seventy one 592 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:01,710 eight hundred eight three one zero seven 593 00:27:05,509 --> 00:27:03,570 seventy one that's eight hundred eight 594 00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:05,519 three one zero seven seventy one or 595 00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:15,390 this is Jacques Vallee 596 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:19,120 you're listening to the podcast the gold 597 00:27:28,590 --> 00:27:26,770 standard of paranormal radio if Chris 598 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:28,600 sounds a little bit hoarse there it's 599 00:27:36,150 --> 00:27:31,090 because he's suffering from the creeping 600 00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:36,160 rot if the zuni could of the Zuni cried 601 00:27:40,380 --> 00:27:37,990 the creeping ride I'm suffering from who 602 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:40,390 knows what but I have the tissue here 603 00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:42,610 and I've taken the antihistamines which 604 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:44,559 have done nothing to my voices most of 605 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:47,530 you will notice and we're plucking on 606 00:27:51,810 --> 00:27:49,030 but we don't have to worry about because 607 00:27:54,260 --> 00:27:51,820 we have dr. Jeffrey Meldrum here he will 608 00:27:56,750 --> 00:27:54,270 keep us going even when we run astray 609 00:27:59,880 --> 00:27:56,760 Chris I have a quick question though 610 00:28:02,400 --> 00:27:59,890 going through the you know the report 611 00:28:06,030 --> 00:28:02,410 logs and witness descriptions and and 612 00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:06,040 looking at regional types of Sasquatch 613 00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:08,740 or Bigfoot you do tend to see size 614 00:28:14,580 --> 00:28:11,800 variation variation and description of 615 00:28:16,910 --> 00:28:14,590 how muscle they are some appear to be 616 00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:16,920 smaller in stature like the skunk Apes 617 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:19,660 for instance the wild man of the all 618 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:20,770 nasties 619 00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:23,410 for instance or seem to be a smaller 620 00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:26,440 version how can we account for what 621 00:28:31,290 --> 00:28:29,350 appear to be different types right well 622 00:28:34,740 --> 00:28:31,300 one of the things that has started to 623 00:28:37,790 --> 00:28:34,750 take shape and a theme that I've been 624 00:28:41,070 --> 00:28:37,800 pounding the drum about that is is 625 00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:41,080 altering the anthropological community's 626 00:28:48,150 --> 00:28:44,550 perception of the place for this notion 627 00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:48,160 rests on two principles one is that that 628 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:50,260 we there's a growing appreciation then 629 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:52,330 this has been happening over the past oh 630 00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:55,090 three or four decades now that that the 631 00:29:01,470 --> 00:28:58,000 hominid niche is not an exclusive club 632 00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:01,480 as was once thought it was once believed 633 00:29:05,790 --> 00:29:03,790 that that it was such an odd combination 634 00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:05,800 of adaptations there could be only one 635 00:29:12,210 --> 00:29:09,520 species in it at a time now we know that 636 00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:12,220 from from a burgeoning well burgeoning I 637 00:29:18,060 --> 00:29:14,830 guess is a relative term but a growing 638 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:18,070 fossil record of hominid evolution that 639 00:29:21,810 --> 00:29:20,050 there were multiple species coexisting 640 00:29:22,259 --> 00:29:21,820 across the landscape at any given time 641 00:29:24,239 --> 00:29:22,269 in the 642 00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:24,249 asked so if you could step in a time 643 00:29:29,339 --> 00:29:26,169 machine and say go back to million years 644 00:29:31,379 --> 00:29:29,349 to East Africa you might bump into you 645 00:29:34,769 --> 00:29:31,389 know at least well right now are known 646 00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:34,779 at least four species of hominid if you 647 00:29:39,989 --> 00:29:37,119 could go back to East Asia as recently 648 00:29:42,229 --> 00:29:39,999 as 20,000 years ago you might bump into 649 00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:42,239 any of a half a dozen different species 650 00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:45,039 living alongside homo sapiens 651 00:29:50,129 --> 00:29:47,440 so those two recognitions those two 652 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:50,139 acknowledgments one that there has been 653 00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:52,450 this the rule rather than exception has 654 00:29:58,349 --> 00:29:55,769 been the contemporaneity of many 655 00:30:01,560 --> 00:29:58,359 differently adapted hominid species 656 00:30:05,579 --> 00:30:01,570 living side by side across the landscape 657 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:05,589 through time and to the fact that new 658 00:30:09,149 --> 00:30:07,690 revelations recent revelations have 659 00:30:11,219 --> 00:30:09,159 shown that many of these branches 660 00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:11,229 several these branches not many but 661 00:30:15,959 --> 00:30:12,849 several these branches have persisted 662 00:30:19,019 --> 00:30:15,969 until more recently than ever recognized 663 00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:19,029 so we have hobbits that are at least as 664 00:30:24,209 --> 00:30:21,849 young as 50 thousand years we have just 665 00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:24,219 recently a mandible of a homo erectus 666 00:30:30,629 --> 00:30:27,369 was dredged up off the coast of Taiwan 667 00:30:32,129 --> 00:30:30,639 in a fisherman's net and it was dated to 668 00:30:34,889 --> 00:30:32,139 10,000 years ago 669 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:34,899 we have occupation sites attributed to 670 00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:36,609 Neanderthal that are perhaps as young as 671 00:30:39,359 --> 00:30:38,409 10,000 years we have Homo 672 00:30:42,719 --> 00:30:39,369 heidelbergensis 673 00:30:45,539 --> 00:30:42,729 in found a specimen outside of Beijing 674 00:30:46,979 --> 00:30:45,549 that's less than 20,000 years I mean 675 00:30:49,469 --> 00:30:46,989 these were dates that would be 676 00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:49,479 unthinkable in in the recent past 677 00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:51,609 so why in the face of that mounting 678 00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:53,769 evidence on the one hand and on the 679 00:30:57,659 --> 00:30:55,329 other hand in the face of so much 680 00:31:00,299 --> 00:30:57,669 evidence and so much ethnographic 681 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:00,309 tradition that there were several types 682 00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:03,450 of wild men as you pointed out the very 683 00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:06,399 Neanderthal like all masti the little 684 00:31:12,569 --> 00:31:09,609 australopithecines Ike Hobbit or perhaps 685 00:31:17,129 --> 00:31:12,579 Arang pendick you know the the modern or 686 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:17,139 the recent equivalent the Himalayan Yeti 687 00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:19,450 that all evidence the best evidence 688 00:31:23,609 --> 00:31:21,700 points to a divergent big toe that would 689 00:31:26,969 --> 00:31:23,619 suggest it's a much more ape-like form 690 00:31:28,949 --> 00:31:26,979 still inhabiting the subtropical to 691 00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:28,959 temperate forests of the Himalayas and 692 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:32,559 the Sasquatch with its equivalents seen 693 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:35,650 in China in Southeast Asia and 694 00:31:40,650 --> 00:31:38,050 in the Caucasus Mountains I was recently 695 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:40,660 over in Russia and followed up on a 696 00:31:44,850 --> 00:31:43,330 sighting of a creature that whose 697 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:44,860 description was remarkably similar to 698 00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:47,890 Sasquatch and left 17 inch footprints 699 00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:49,740 that were essentially indistinguishable 700 00:31:57,030 --> 00:31:52,720 in all their characteristics and their 701 00:31:59,730 --> 00:31:57,040 and their Mew no specifics contrast to 702 00:32:02,040 --> 00:31:59,740 human footprints remarkably similar to a 703 00:32:04,290 --> 00:32:02,050 Sasquatch track what I'm hearing and 704 00:32:08,490 --> 00:32:04,300 what you're saying is that humanoid 705 00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:08,500 species are both older and newer than we 706 00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:10,720 previously suspected that some branches 707 00:32:15,930 --> 00:32:13,390 survived for a longer period of time and 708 00:32:16,410 --> 00:32:15,940 might therefore still survive that's 709 00:32:18,660 --> 00:32:16,420 right 710 00:32:21,270 --> 00:32:18,670 absolutely so the term I like to apply 711 00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:21,280 to that is really common oyd a species 712 00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:24,910 that once was more widespread but now is 713 00:32:29,730 --> 00:32:27,190 restricted that's now persistent to the 714 00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:29,740 present in a more restricted range and 715 00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:32,200 distribution and of course hominoid is 716 00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:35,470 refers to the superfamily humming idea 717 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:38,559 which includes us and the great apes so 718 00:32:42,570 --> 00:32:40,690 it would encompass you know things that 719 00:32:46,410 --> 00:32:42,580 are very ape-like like the Yeti or 720 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:46,420 things that could be early hominins like 721 00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:49,090 the sasquatch and things that could be 722 00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:51,280 very closely related to us like the 723 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:54,190 allness now this is interesting here 724 00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:56,170 because I listen to you when I'm hearing 725 00:33:01,560 --> 00:32:58,330 a scientist simply explain in a very 726 00:33:04,020 --> 00:33:01,570 logical way why these things can be so 727 00:33:06,330 --> 00:33:04,030 why is it that scientists do not appear 728 00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:06,340 to accept any of this it doesn't sound 729 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:08,620 to me like it's anything outside the 730 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:11,410 realm of logic at all well that's that's 731 00:33:14,580 --> 00:33:13,330 the case that I've been trying to make 732 00:33:16,650 --> 00:33:14,590 you know like I said I've been beating 733 00:33:21,419 --> 00:33:16,660 this drum for for quite a number of 734 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:21,429 years and now the the evidence is 735 00:33:28,669 --> 00:33:24,010 becoming sort of overwhelming it's it's 736 00:33:32,430 --> 00:33:28,679 it's undeniable and but some lessons are 737 00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:32,440 slow to be learned and as I said there 738 00:33:39,299 --> 00:33:35,200 was this paradigm this notion of a 739 00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:39,309 single species that was very influential 740 00:33:46,530 --> 00:33:43,600 in anthropology back in the you know 741 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:46,540 back in the 60s and so you know Ivan 742 00:33:52,049 --> 00:33:49,690 Sanderson wrote this encyclopedic 743 00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:52,059 home in which he he marshaled all this 744 00:33:58,139 --> 00:33:55,360 evidence for subhuman species around the 745 00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,149 world but when he presents that to the 746 00:34:03,539 --> 00:34:01,120 academic community in 1961 when it was 747 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:03,549 published that was right at the heyday 748 00:34:09,210 --> 00:34:06,250 of the notion that there could be only 749 00:34:12,030 --> 00:34:09,220 one hominid species at a time and it was 750 00:34:14,970 --> 00:34:12,040 only subsequently in the 70s that the 751 00:34:16,889 --> 00:34:14,980 fossil record began to expand to the 752 00:34:18,510 --> 00:34:16,899 point that it was you know just 753 00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:18,520 undeniable that there were multiple 754 00:34:24,839 --> 00:34:21,280 species coexisting that you know it 755 00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:24,849 wasn't an exclusive club and it's just 756 00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:29,200 been slow for that to to finally take 757 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:31,089 root and and even with the 758 00:34:35,790 --> 00:34:33,490 acknowledgment of that it still was felt 759 00:34:38,579 --> 00:34:35,800 you know that basically the argument was 760 00:34:40,319 --> 00:34:38,589 just was just drop kicked further down 761 00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:40,329 the pike you know kick the can down the 762 00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:43,119 road to apply to modern humans well 763 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:44,800 modern humans because of our culture and 764 00:34:48,839 --> 00:34:47,169 our technology and our intelligence you 765 00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:48,849 know we have driven all these other 766 00:34:55,220 --> 00:34:52,000 hominids to extinction well that's a big 767 00:34:58,890 --> 00:34:55,230 assumption when we have footprints and 768 00:35:03,000 --> 00:34:58,900 visual sightings of hominoids in you 769 00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:03,010 know in eastern Asia and and Asia Minor 770 00:35:08,099 --> 00:35:06,190 and Siberia when we have reports of 771 00:35:10,770 --> 00:35:08,109 Sasquatch in North America and we have 772 00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:10,780 reports of little people luring pendick 773 00:35:16,859 --> 00:35:12,280 in Southeast Asia I mean that's the 774 00:35:19,170 --> 00:35:16,869 point so you forgot the Yowie well yeah 775 00:35:24,030 --> 00:35:19,180 yeah you know the Yowie is a little bit 776 00:35:27,809 --> 00:35:24,040 radioactive for me you know my my my 777 00:35:29,790 --> 00:35:27,819 expertise is in footprints and we there 778 00:35:32,819 --> 00:35:29,800 still hasn't been presented of a 779 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:32,829 convincing footprint case you know a 780 00:35:39,809 --> 00:35:35,890 case based on footprint evidence that we 781 00:35:42,030 --> 00:35:39,819 have a hominoid or a hominid in in 782 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:42,040 Australia so what exactly we're dealing 783 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:44,050 with there it's one that fascinates me 784 00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:46,450 and I and I've read widely audit by I've 785 00:35:52,460 --> 00:35:49,270 always kind of dropped a little bit I'm 786 00:35:55,859 --> 00:35:52,470 not sure exactly yet I have it I have it 787 00:35:59,700 --> 00:35:55,869 followed my train of thought how to it's 788 00:36:03,390 --> 00:35:59,710 a conclusion as of yet but the point I 789 00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:03,400 wanted to make those is while the 790 00:36:09,299 --> 00:36:05,529 formal institutional scientific 791 00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:09,309 community still is reluctant this is the 792 00:36:13,859 --> 00:36:11,470 backdrop I guess I should say but but 793 00:36:16,740 --> 00:36:13,869 there is also another veneer and that is 794 00:36:19,170 --> 00:36:16,750 this notion of skepticism and and the 795 00:36:21,690 --> 00:36:19,180 the misplaced label of pseudoscience 796 00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:21,700 when it applies to the search for 797 00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:24,400 sasquatch another relic Commons and that 798 00:36:29,279 --> 00:36:26,380 is another issue that we've had to deal 799 00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:29,289 with is you know the show me the body 800 00:36:36,599 --> 00:36:32,710 the man mantra that Michael Shermer 801 00:36:39,539 --> 00:36:36,609 likes to chant right you know they want 802 00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:39,549 the conclusion before the evidence is 803 00:36:44,730 --> 00:36:42,640 analyzed right we'll have more to 804 00:36:48,530 --> 00:36:44,740 discuss with dr. Jeffrey Meldrum and 805 00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:48,540 Jean and Chris sure in the bare cast 806 00:37:03,569 --> 00:36:59,680 [Music] 807 00:37:08,130 --> 00:37:03,579 thank you for listening to GCN 808 00:37:10,380 --> 00:37:08,140 be sure to visit GCN live.com today we 809 00:37:13,650 --> 00:37:10,390 also have swag you know we have all 810 00:37:14,489 --> 00:37:13,660 these exclusive para cast things that 811 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:14,499 you can buy 812 00:37:19,229 --> 00:37:16,450 we've got like I guess 60 or so 813 00:37:22,859 --> 00:37:19,239 different items and entails t-shirts 814 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:22,869 sleeves for notebook computers iPad 815 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:26,170 cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo 816 00:37:30,299 --> 00:37:28,450 tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and 817 00:37:33,569 --> 00:37:30,309 jackets and stuff like that for men and 818 00:37:36,329 --> 00:37:33,579 women we have a para cast aluminum water 819 00:37:39,959 --> 00:37:36,339 bottle all 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online at HP extract com this is Ben 905 00:40:43,059 --> 00:40:40,640 Gordon and if your teeth are stained 906 00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:43,069 from coffee tea or smoking power swabs 907 00:40:46,750 --> 00:40:44,960 is the answer in five minutes you'll see 908 00:40:47,859 --> 00:40:46,760 two shades whiter teeth and in seven 909 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:47,869 days six shades 910 00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:49,730 there's no messy strips or trays that 911 00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:50,750 you have to leave in your mouth for an 912 00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:52,160 hour just swab your teeth for five 913 00:40:54,609 --> 00:40:52,609 minutes 914 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:54,619 and you're done to try power swabs call 915 00:40:58,269 --> 00:40:56,450 one eight hundred to nine 916 00:40:59,890 --> 00:40:58,279 eight four eight zero your bright white 917 00:41:01,329 --> 00:40:59,900 smile will have your friends talking 918 00:41:04,329 --> 00:41:01,339 about how great you look try it 919 00:41:06,370 --> 00:41:04,339 risk-free 1-800 to nine zero eight four 920 00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:06,380 eight zero that's one eight hundred to 921 00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:11,089 nine zero eight four eight zero hello 922 00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:12,710 this is John Burroughs one of the 923 00:41:18,690 --> 00:41:16,420 witnesses to the Rendlesham UFO incident 924 00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:18,700 - the para cast the gold standard of a 925 00:41:31,150 --> 00:41:29,559 now my head cold feels a little bit 926 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:31,160 better I think it's because it's such an 927 00:41:36,549 --> 00:41:33,650 enjoyable episode dr. Jeffrey Meldrum is 928 00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:36,559 here to talk about discoveries into 929 00:41:46,510 --> 00:41:40,430 Bigfoot Sasquatch and it's enough to set 930 00:41:48,700 --> 00:41:46,520 off Siri you're not looking Siri that's 931 00:41:50,020 --> 00:41:48,710 the problem this has been happening more 932 00:41:54,579 --> 00:41:50,030 and more lately I think it's some kind 933 00:41:57,010 --> 00:41:54,589 of psychosomatic ailment or some kind of 934 00:41:59,650 --> 00:41:57,020 paranoid or paranormal phenomenon but 935 00:42:02,289 --> 00:41:59,660 seriously speaking Jeff is it possible 936 00:42:04,780 --> 00:42:02,299 at this point in time to even estimate 937 00:42:07,329 --> 00:42:04,790 the population of these creatures around 938 00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:07,339 the world I mean how many would it take 939 00:42:12,099 --> 00:42:10,640 to produce an occasional sighting and 940 00:42:15,099 --> 00:42:12,109 how many would we need to just have 941 00:42:17,950 --> 00:42:15,109 evidence all over the place right well I 942 00:42:20,530 --> 00:42:17,960 have not tackled that issue on a global 943 00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:20,540 scale certainly but but just to give an 944 00:42:25,329 --> 00:42:23,630 example on a more local scale because 945 00:42:27,549 --> 00:42:25,339 I'm often asked this how many sasquatch 946 00:42:30,579 --> 00:42:27,559 do you think there are and I always try 947 00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:30,589 to emphasize the rarity you know the 948 00:42:35,289 --> 00:42:32,270 comeback is always well how do you 949 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:35,299 sustain a viable reproductive population 950 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:39,290 well that's a real nebulous concept and 951 00:42:43,809 --> 00:42:41,450 you know if you dig a little bit you'll 952 00:42:47,620 --> 00:42:43,819 find that there is no standard there's 953 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:47,630 no scale really it depends entirely upon 954 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:51,650 the genetic load the genetic you know 955 00:42:58,569 --> 00:42:54,770 deleterious recessive load that a 956 00:43:00,910 --> 00:42:58,579 population bears which which if it's 957 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:00,920 high then that precipitates you know 958 00:43:05,950 --> 00:43:04,010 inbreeding depression you know you don't 959 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:05,960 you don't marry your cousin because the 960 00:43:11,559 --> 00:43:08,210 chance of the two of you having some 961 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:11,569 harmful recessive gene cropping up in 962 00:43:16,210 --> 00:43:13,730 your children then become statistically 963 00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:16,220 very high but if your gene pool is 964 00:43:22,359 --> 00:43:19,270 fairly free of those kinds of mutations 965 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:22,369 then a population can muddle along just 966 00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:24,410 fine you know mountain gorillas went 967 00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:26,510 through a bottleneck where the 968 00:43:31,359 --> 00:43:28,910 population was reduced to below 200 and 969 00:43:33,370 --> 00:43:31,369 they rebounded now spending just between 970 00:43:35,559 --> 00:43:33,380 six hundred eight hundred with no signs 971 00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:35,569 of you know deleterious effects of 972 00:43:39,730 --> 00:43:37,750 inbreeding their gene pool could 973 00:43:41,859 --> 00:43:39,740 tolerate that now 974 00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:41,869 rule of thumb if you do do some research 975 00:43:46,660 --> 00:43:43,760 or dig into that that's thrown out by 976 00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:46,670 some four vertebrates would be about a 977 00:43:52,450 --> 00:43:48,710 thousand individuals to have a 978 00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:52,460 reasonably viable population well that's 979 00:43:58,540 --> 00:43:55,880 easily accommodated in North America for 980 00:43:59,770 --> 00:43:58,550 sasquatch little exercise oh and I won't 981 00:44:02,500 --> 00:43:59,780 go through the whole thing with you here 982 00:44:05,020 --> 00:44:02,510 but you know we have some suggestive 983 00:44:07,570 --> 00:44:05,030 evidence from which we can infer that 984 00:44:09,370 --> 00:44:07,580 you know being solitary they probably 985 00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:09,380 have a very large range given the 986 00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:11,119 habitat you know depending on the 987 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:13,520 habitat to how that range may vary 988 00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:16,130 considerably but let's say a thousand 989 00:44:21,940 --> 00:44:18,710 square miles and in that thousand square 990 00:44:24,609 --> 00:44:21,950 miles a male may solitary male may 991 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:24,619 defend or patrol an area that overlaps 992 00:44:28,690 --> 00:44:26,690 that of some females so say in a 993 00:44:31,630 --> 00:44:28,700 thousand square miles there's one 994 00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:31,640 dominant male and one or two maybe three 995 00:44:36,430 --> 00:44:34,160 females and probably a couple offspring 996 00:44:38,290 --> 00:44:36,440 in the mix there let's just say five 997 00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:38,300 individuals well if you look at a map of 998 00:44:42,340 --> 00:44:41,030 Idaho and and also bear in mind one more 999 00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:42,350 factor there's a pretty good correlation 1000 00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:45,230 it seems between credible Sasquatch 1001 00:44:50,890 --> 00:44:48,560 sightings and precipitation it seems 1002 00:44:54,730 --> 00:44:50,900 that these creatures require a habitat 1003 00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:54,740 that's is associated with about 1618 1004 00:45:00,520 --> 00:44:57,920 inches or more of precipitation and some 1005 00:45:03,490 --> 00:45:00,530 more temperate yeah temperate but moist 1006 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:03,500 I mean they need moist forests the core 1007 00:45:08,290 --> 00:45:05,810 habitat seems to be Douglas fir forests 1008 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:08,300 you know in a rich understory say with 1009 00:45:14,890 --> 00:45:10,930 blueberry and other other fruiting 1010 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:14,900 shrubs and so forth there has to be 1011 00:45:19,780 --> 00:45:17,450 water they seem to be wet wet pretty wet 1012 00:45:22,270 --> 00:45:19,790 apes you know require wet habitat but in 1013 00:45:25,930 --> 00:45:22,280 case you look at Idaho how many thousand 1014 00:45:27,970 --> 00:45:25,940 square mile plots could you fit into the 1015 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:27,980 areas of Idaho that have a suitable 1016 00:45:32,260 --> 00:45:30,170 habitat associated with that kind of 1017 00:45:34,510 --> 00:45:32,270 rainfall well there's about twelve maybe 1018 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:34,520 fourteen that's going to vary obviously 1019 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:36,890 with surface area given topography and 1020 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:39,290 given patchiness of the habitat etc see 1021 00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:41,450 I mean these are very coarse numbers but 1022 00:45:46,510 --> 00:45:44,240 if that's in a ballpark five times 1023 00:45:48,430 --> 00:45:46,520 twelve there's only about sixty 1024 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:48,440 Sasquatch in the entire state of Idaho 1025 00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:51,530 there's 20,000 black bear in Idaho by 1026 00:45:54,910 --> 00:45:53,119 comparison right 1027 00:45:58,269 --> 00:45:54,920 that could also explain why we haven't 1028 00:46:00,819 --> 00:45:58,279 found skeletons why we we don't find you 1029 00:46:02,739 --> 00:46:00,829 know more evidence physical evidence of 1030 00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:02,749 their of their passing shall we say 1031 00:46:07,539 --> 00:46:05,359 because if you add to those numbers the 1032 00:46:10,329 --> 00:46:07,549 fact that they are probably long-lived 1033 00:46:11,980 --> 00:46:10,339 large apes and and there's a good 1034 00:46:14,650 --> 00:46:11,990 correlation positive correlation of 1035 00:46:18,069 --> 00:46:14,660 longevity with body size so they could 1036 00:46:20,289 --> 00:46:18,079 live to be 5060 years old easily so of 1037 00:46:22,210 --> 00:46:20,299 those 60 than an Idaho how many of them 1038 00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:22,220 are in their golden years that are gonna 1039 00:46:26,259 --> 00:46:23,720 die a natural death because they 1040 00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:26,269 wouldn't have any natural predators you 1041 00:46:30,910 --> 00:46:27,529 know there's not many things that would 1042 00:46:32,499 --> 00:46:30,920 give an 800-pound gorilla cause for 1043 00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:32,509 concern out in the forests of North 1044 00:46:38,829 --> 00:46:35,599 America so you know how often is a death 1045 00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:38,839 even going to occur in Idaho for example 1046 00:46:43,539 --> 00:46:41,119 using our case you know it may be at 1 1 1047 00:46:45,489 --> 00:46:43,549 in 10 years and so what are your chances 1048 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:45,499 of finding that one body that has 1049 00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:48,170 secreted itself off in some nook or 1050 00:46:52,509 --> 00:46:49,730 cranny because it was feeling sick or 1051 00:46:56,019 --> 00:46:52,519 decrepit or old and died you know 1052 00:46:58,269 --> 00:46:56,029 removed from from its surroundings you 1053 00:47:00,940 --> 00:46:58,279 you when you when you think in terms of 1054 00:47:04,349 --> 00:47:00,950 that degree of rarity then the 1055 00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:04,359 objections to the lack of of that 1056 00:47:10,329 --> 00:47:07,609 definitive can physical evidence aren't 1057 00:47:13,029 --> 00:47:10,339 really so damning after all right but if 1058 00:47:15,489 --> 00:47:13,039 there are no predators directly and no 1059 00:47:18,759 --> 00:47:15,499 impediments to population wouldn't that 1060 00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:18,769 population grow over time somewhat well 1061 00:47:23,559 --> 00:47:20,720 not necessarily because because the rate 1062 00:47:26,890 --> 00:47:23,569 of reproduction is very low in large 8 1063 00:47:28,779 --> 00:47:26,900 so you look at say orangutans just as an 1064 00:47:32,349 --> 00:47:28,789 example a female will only give birth 1065 00:47:35,739 --> 00:47:32,359 every 6 to 8 years and and they're very 1066 00:47:38,769 --> 00:47:35,749 slow to develop so that whole life 1067 00:47:41,470 --> 00:47:38,779 history cycle it's it's not like rabbits 1068 00:47:43,539 --> 00:47:41,480 or rats reproducing or even deer or elk 1069 00:47:46,359 --> 00:47:43,549 reproducing or even bear I mean it's 1070 00:47:48,819 --> 00:47:46,369 it's you know potentially four times I 1071 00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:48,829 think bears life expectancy is somewhere 1072 00:47:53,799 --> 00:47:50,089 between you know twenty and thirty years 1073 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:53,809 and so this is is twice three times that 1074 00:47:58,809 --> 00:47:56,690 length with a much lower rate of 1075 00:48:00,519 --> 00:47:58,819 reproduction so no I don't think it 1076 00:48:01,930 --> 00:48:00,529 would and it's not to say you've even 1077 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:01,940 without natural predators you know 1078 00:48:05,499 --> 00:48:03,890 there's still there's accidents there's 1079 00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:05,509 illness there's there could be 1080 00:48:12,010 --> 00:48:06,560 starvation did 1081 00:48:13,390 --> 00:48:12,020 hard winters or whatever but yeah I and 1082 00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:13,400 of course then we've got you know 1083 00:48:18,850 --> 00:48:16,100 anytime you add to the mix habitat 1084 00:48:21,220 --> 00:48:18,860 degradation and fragmentation that's 1085 00:48:22,930 --> 00:48:21,230 also going to affect the ability of 1086 00:48:25,090 --> 00:48:22,940 especially these lone solitary 1087 00:48:27,550 --> 00:48:25,100 individuals to find a mate you know what 1088 00:48:29,860 --> 00:48:27,560 to get together for procreation and so 1089 00:48:31,930 --> 00:48:29,870 no I don't think we would expect 1090 00:48:35,170 --> 00:48:31,940 burgeoning populations this this is the 1091 00:48:37,180 --> 00:48:35,180 the challenge of conserving the other 1092 00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:37,190 great apes you know when a when a 1093 00:48:41,110 --> 00:48:39,200 gorilla population goes down to a 1094 00:48:45,150 --> 00:48:41,120 bottleneck like the mountain gorillas 1095 00:48:48,430 --> 00:48:45,160 did it takes them decades to rebound 1096 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:48,440 right you know that's not even even you 1097 00:48:54,580 --> 00:48:51,650 mentioning the vast spaces in British 1098 00:48:56,590 --> 00:48:54,590 Columbia and parts of Alberta that very 1099 00:48:59,890 --> 00:48:56,600 few people have ever even been I mean 1100 00:49:02,200 --> 00:48:59,900 there's millions of acres up there a 1101 00:49:04,810 --> 00:49:02,210 virgin untapped there's no way in no way 1102 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:04,820 out there may be you know a breeding 1103 00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:06,770 population up there that's then kicking 1104 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:09,590 out the young males to go out on their 1105 00:49:14,740 --> 00:49:11,450 own but one thing that's always 1106 00:49:18,070 --> 00:49:14,750 surprised me and and this is a figure 1107 00:49:19,930 --> 00:49:18,080 that you can obviously argue Sasquatch 1108 00:49:23,620 --> 00:49:19,940 sightings in Oklahoma and Kansas but 1109 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:23,630 according to my research these types of 1110 00:49:29,860 --> 00:49:26,930 creatures have been seen in 48 of 50 1111 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:29,870 states seen and reported and that that 1112 00:49:36,910 --> 00:49:33,890 is is unbelievable I mean where would a 1113 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:36,920 Bigfoot hide or the DuPont monster as 1114 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:40,250 he's called in southern Illinois I think 1115 00:49:45,010 --> 00:49:42,410 you use the operative word there it is 1116 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:45,020 rather unbelievable I just have a real 1117 00:49:50,140 --> 00:49:48,290 hard time okay if you open up a field 1118 00:49:53,170 --> 00:49:50,150 guide to mammals Peterson's field guide 1119 00:49:55,630 --> 00:49:53,180 to mammals and turn to the range map of 1120 00:49:58,600 --> 00:49:55,640 black bears which are another large 1121 00:50:01,180 --> 00:49:58,610 omnivore while they may they may 1122 00:50:02,830 --> 00:50:01,190 partition that niche I'm sure they 1123 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:02,840 partition that niche a bit differently 1124 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:05,090 still they have some of the basic 1125 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:07,370 habitat requirements that we've 1126 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:10,850 associated with sasquatch you know look 1127 00:50:15,070 --> 00:50:12,530 at the range distribution there and it 1128 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:15,080 doesn't cover 48 uh you know states the 1129 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:20,530 man and so I'm you know I always 1130 00:50:27,150 --> 00:50:24,490 Challenge the the would-be reporters to 1131 00:50:30,090 --> 00:50:27,160 to corroborate their visual sighting 1132 00:50:32,130 --> 00:50:30,100 with butt print evidence even the best 1133 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:32,140 evidence has to be examined carefully I 1134 00:50:37,140 --> 00:50:34,450 mean it's been my experience I think 1135 00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:37,150 those numbers are grossly over inflated 1136 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:41,160 because when I've had the opportunity to 1137 00:50:47,490 --> 00:50:44,530 track down and examine footprint 1138 00:50:50,450 --> 00:50:47,500 evidence you know you cannot you cannot 1139 00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:50,460 take someone at their word because most 1140 00:50:57,410 --> 00:50:53,440 I mean it takes it with a few exceptions 1141 00:51:00,720 --> 00:50:57,420 I mean there are experienced qualified 1142 00:51:04,290 --> 00:51:00,730 authoritative witnesses out there no 1143 00:51:07,830 --> 00:51:04,300 doubt but you know a lot of the 1144 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:07,840 footprint examples that are shared with 1145 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:11,530 me are you know they could be potholes 1146 00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:14,290 they could be misidentified bear lots of 1147 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:18,430 misidentified human footprints you you I 1148 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:20,290 you know it just requires that I really 1149 00:51:24,990 --> 00:51:22,090 look at that so I can't take those 1150 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:25,000 reports on paper at face value and 1151 00:51:28,590 --> 00:51:26,890 especially than a visual account where 1152 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:28,600 all you have is the ability of that 1153 00:51:35,820 --> 00:51:32,850 individual to describe their experience 1154 00:51:38,190 --> 00:51:35,830 you know it's it's not necessarily 1155 00:51:39,870 --> 00:51:38,200 reliable we've got more to come with dr. 1156 00:51:48,060 --> 00:51:39,880 Jeffrey Meldrum and Gina and Chris 1157 00:51:48,070 --> 00:51:53,130 thank you for listening to GCN 1158 00:52:00,750 --> 00:51:58,680 visit GP and live.com today attack of 1159 00:52:03,029 --> 00:52:00,760 the rock AIDS has been well-received by 1160 00:52:05,099 --> 00:52:03,039 critics and readers alike it's a thrill 1161 00:52:07,470 --> 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dangers learn 1203 00:53:54,329 --> 00:53:52,720 more at blackhat pocket comm or call 1204 00:53:56,660 --> 00:53:54,339 eight eight eight three one five nine 1205 00:54:02,020 --> 00:53:56,670 six one eight block eight pocket 1206 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:06,230 [Applause] 1207 00:54:14,270 --> 00:54:09,970 welcome back into the para cast the gold 1208 00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:14,280 standard of paranormal radio and now 1209 00:54:24,210 --> 00:54:22,569 here's Jane Steinberg now a little bit 1210 00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:24,220 later in the episode we've got a number 1211 00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:26,079 of questions from our listeners which 1212 00:54:30,690 --> 00:54:28,240 they posted in the para cast forums at 1213 00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:30,700 4:00 I'm not the para cast con we're 1214 00:54:36,359 --> 00:54:33,250 talking to dr. Jeffrey Meldrum one of 1215 00:54:39,180 --> 00:54:36,369 the few academics who takes Bigfoot 1216 00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:39,190 seriously now with all this stuff and 1217 00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:41,920 all this logic you're presenting us why 1218 00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:44,050 is it that science isn't giving it more 1219 00:54:48,809 --> 00:54:45,760 attention sounds to me like just a 1220 00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:48,819 natural evolution of their studies of 1221 00:54:53,700 --> 00:54:51,430 different species of humanoids and other 1222 00:54:55,950 --> 00:54:53,710 creatures right well I think we're 1223 00:54:59,730 --> 00:54:55,960 slowly getting to that point and I have 1224 00:55:02,660 --> 00:54:59,740 in some capacities interaction with my 1225 00:55:06,660 --> 00:55:02,670 colleagues where they are quite open I 1226 00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:06,670 edit an online scholarly journal with an 1227 00:55:11,579 --> 00:55:09,760 editorial board that consists of PhDs 1228 00:55:14,190 --> 00:55:11,589 and other professionals with the 1229 00:55:17,250 --> 00:55:14,200 appropriate you know skill sets I also 1230 00:55:20,700 --> 00:55:17,260 threw that in that capacity recruit 1231 00:55:22,859 --> 00:55:20,710 reviewers or commentators on submissions 1232 00:55:25,290 --> 00:55:22,869 to that journal and I you know I go 1233 00:55:29,130 --> 00:55:25,300 after the the best and the most 1234 00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:29,140 prominent experts in the various fields 1235 00:55:35,130 --> 00:55:32,260 and many have been quite willing to 1236 00:55:38,339 --> 00:55:35,140 offer their opinion and and to give an 1237 00:55:42,059 --> 00:55:38,349 objective scholarly commentary on those 1238 00:55:45,930 --> 00:55:42,069 submissions but it still it still has 1239 00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:45,940 such a stigma attached to it that many 1240 00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:48,730 are unwilling to jeopardize their career 1241 00:55:54,510 --> 00:55:50,710 their reputation and I certainly 1242 00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:54,520 wouldn't encourage a young assistant 1243 00:56:00,180 --> 00:55:57,010 professor just starting down their 1244 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:00,190 career path to get mired in the 1245 00:56:05,550 --> 00:56:01,690 controversy that surrounds it 1246 00:56:08,670 --> 00:56:05,560 unfortunately openly it's - I can speak 1247 00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:08,680 from experience it's even idealistic 1248 00:56:13,410 --> 00:56:10,450 enough to jump into the deep end the 1249 00:56:16,109 --> 00:56:13,420 pool before I had tenure it was a bloody 1250 00:56:18,540 --> 00:56:16,119 bruising battle to get through that 1251 00:56:21,690 --> 00:56:18,550 gauntlet because of the narrow 1252 00:56:25,170 --> 00:56:21,700 mindedness of many of my colleagues in 1253 00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:25,180 my department and campus so the other 1254 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:28,480 hand the reaction has spanned the gambit 1255 00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:29,890 from my colleagues there are those who 1256 00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:32,319 are or very very interested and 1257 00:56:36,210 --> 00:56:34,089 passionate and about it curious 1258 00:56:38,130 --> 00:56:36,220 passionately curious about it the 1259 00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:38,140 opposite extreme there are those who 1260 00:56:44,099 --> 00:56:41,040 have a I can only describe as a visceral 1261 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:44,109 rejection of it for for various reasons 1262 00:56:48,359 --> 00:56:46,450 that we've touched on already been an 1263 00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:48,369 interesting an interesting that what 1264 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:50,640 I've been at this now since 96 so 1265 00:56:56,490 --> 00:56:54,130 20-some years well you've managed to 1266 00:56:59,370 --> 00:56:56,500 emerge fairly unscathed 1267 00:57:03,109 --> 00:56:59,380 so whatever brand of academic Teflon 1268 00:57:05,790 --> 00:57:03,119 that you're using I I would suggest the 1269 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:05,800 recipe because having dealt with a 1270 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:07,690 number of paranormal subjects and and 1271 00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:09,970 met scientists who are very interested 1272 00:57:14,420 --> 00:57:12,250 in the subjects and and heard heard 1273 00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:14,430 about the you know the same types of 1274 00:57:19,980 --> 00:57:16,690 problems that they they would encounter 1275 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:19,990 if they attempted to you know to be more 1276 00:57:25,530 --> 00:57:22,450 public about their interests these are 1277 00:57:28,650 --> 00:57:25,540 toxic subjects anytime you have subject 1278 00:57:32,089 --> 00:57:28,660 areas that are rife with hoaxing rife 1279 00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:32,099 with shall we say a good science 1280 00:57:37,859 --> 00:57:35,200 procedurals procedure and the scientific 1281 00:57:39,839 --> 00:57:37,869 method not adhere to properly you're 1282 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:39,849 gonna run into you're gonna run into 1283 00:57:43,579 --> 00:57:41,770 some rope and push back and reluctance 1284 00:57:45,540 --> 00:57:43,589 oh I think on the from the mainstream 1285 00:57:47,730 --> 00:57:45,550 where do you come down at Melba 1286 00:57:50,190 --> 00:57:47,740 Ketchum's attempt a number of years ago 1287 00:57:54,180 --> 00:57:50,200 I think in 2012 where she attempted to 1288 00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:54,190 get some DNA analysis of I think 17 or 1289 00:57:58,559 --> 00:57:56,770 19 samples I'm not even sure if that 1290 00:57:59,760 --> 00:57:58,569 ended up being the final number could 1291 00:58:04,050 --> 00:57:59,770 you give our listeners maybe a little 1292 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:04,060 rundown on that what what they did wrong 1293 00:58:07,859 --> 00:58:05,650 what they did right and how we can 1294 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:07,869 improve it next time right well in fact 1295 00:58:16,260 --> 00:58:12,130 I just published or posted in our 1296 00:58:19,950 --> 00:58:16,270 journal an article by a PhD chemist who 1297 00:58:20,539 --> 00:58:19,960 did a fantastic review of not only dr. 1298 00:58:24,359 --> 00:58:20,549 Ketchum's 1299 00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:24,369 study but dr. Sykes and a couple of 1300 00:58:30,539 --> 00:58:27,910 other DNA analyses of alleged Sasquatch 1301 00:58:31,749 --> 00:58:30,549 samples and I'd encourage your reviewers 1302 00:58:34,089 --> 00:58:31,759 to to 1303 00:58:36,759 --> 00:58:34,099 check that out it's at at the relic 1304 00:58:41,979 --> 00:58:36,769 hominid inquiry which is just simply is 1305 00:58:45,549 --> 00:58:41,989 you dot e-d-u /rh i but he was actually 1306 00:58:48,639 --> 00:58:45,559 quite quite kind and and pointed out 1307 00:58:52,779 --> 00:58:48,649 some of the shortcomings i at this point 1308 00:58:55,929 --> 00:58:52,789 not so generous in my assessment of that 1309 00:58:57,879 --> 00:58:55,939 whole thing having been involved with it 1310 00:59:00,279 --> 00:58:57,889 when not involved with it but having 1311 00:59:03,459 --> 00:59:00,289 been observing it from the sidelines 1312 00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:03,469 pretty much since the since her first 1313 00:59:08,589 --> 00:59:06,799 exposure to the sasquatch subject but in 1314 00:59:09,819 --> 00:59:08,599 short because we don't have much time 1315 00:59:12,099 --> 00:59:09,829 and I hate to spend too much time on 1316 00:59:14,529 --> 00:59:12,109 this absolutely no credibility 1317 00:59:17,109 --> 00:59:14,539 whatsoever nothing in that report is 1318 00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:17,119 really reliable or none of the 1319 00:59:21,939 --> 00:59:18,799 conclusions was put that way and 1320 00:59:26,289 --> 00:59:21,949 interpretations of the data insofar as 1321 00:59:31,269 --> 00:59:26,299 the data is reliable and and actually 1322 00:59:32,439 --> 00:59:31,279 describing novel sequences like I said 1323 00:59:34,629 --> 00:59:32,449 we could spend the whole hour talking 1324 00:59:37,149 --> 00:59:34,639 about it but I mean you mentioned the 1325 00:59:39,159 --> 00:59:37,159 number of samples so I'll just I'll just 1326 00:59:42,489 --> 00:59:39,169 comment on that I think it was in in 1327 00:59:45,489 --> 00:59:42,499 excess of a hundred samples 101 yeah but 1328 00:59:48,759 --> 00:59:45,499 every one of which every one of which at 1329 00:59:51,659 --> 00:59:48,769 least as reported yielded Sasquatch DNA 1330 00:59:54,279 --> 00:59:51,669 in her assessment now I've screamed 1331 00:59:56,679 --> 00:59:54,289 dozens and dozens of hair samples that 1332 01:00:02,589 --> 00:59:56,689 have been submitted to me and probably 1333 01:00:04,569 --> 01:00:02,599 10% if that our primate hair and the 1334 01:00:06,969 --> 01:00:04,579 question is simply whether it's human or 1335 01:00:09,969 --> 01:00:06,979 whether it's potentially Sasquatch and 1336 01:00:15,009 --> 01:00:09,979 there are there are some characteristics 1337 01:00:17,259 --> 01:00:15,019 that including being uncut most human 1338 01:00:20,219 --> 01:00:17,269 hair samples that you pick up have been 1339 01:00:24,729 --> 01:00:20,229 cut at some point and the end shows that 1340 01:00:27,999 --> 01:00:24,739 that process having taken place but by 1341 01:00:30,399 --> 01:00:28,009 far the majority are of common forms of 1342 01:00:33,429 --> 01:00:30,409 wildlife people don't recognize or 1343 01:00:35,289 --> 01:00:33,439 realize that hair persists in the 1344 01:00:37,539 --> 01:00:35,299 environment to a remarkable degree 1345 01:00:40,599 --> 01:00:37,549 yeah it's resilient it was very 1346 01:00:43,179 --> 01:00:40,609 resilient and so the odds you know I 1347 01:00:44,410 --> 01:00:43,189 would that there was there's a great 1348 01:00:47,770 --> 01:00:44,420 book 1349 01:00:51,550 --> 01:00:47,780 on tracking and I was Elle Brock he 1350 01:00:54,220 --> 01:00:51,560 talks about hair in the final chapters 1351 01:00:55,870 --> 01:00:54,230 of his book and when he has students out 1352 01:00:57,460 --> 01:00:55,880 in the field and they stop for a lunch 1353 01:00:59,980 --> 01:00:57,470 break he won't let them stand up until 1354 01:01:02,350 --> 01:00:59,990 they pick up ten strands of hair and 1355 01:01:04,270 --> 01:01:02,360 once he says you know at first it seems 1356 01:01:06,460 --> 01:01:04,280 like that's impossible but once you get 1357 01:01:08,260 --> 01:01:06,470 a search image for these fibers you 1358 01:01:10,210 --> 01:01:08,270 start finding them all over the place I 1359 01:01:12,070 --> 01:01:10,220 mean they're just everywhere and so when 1360 01:01:13,540 --> 01:01:12,080 a when a witness out there would be 1361 01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:13,550 witness whether they actually did 1362 01:01:18,430 --> 01:01:16,400 encounter a sasquatch or not presumably 1363 01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:18,440 an association plucks a hair from a 1364 01:01:24,460 --> 01:01:21,680 dancer from the branch of a overhanging 1365 01:01:27,070 --> 01:01:24,470 overhanging branch of a tree they they 1366 01:01:29,980 --> 01:01:27,080 may think that that was left by what 1367 01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:29,990 they saw the chances are it was it's 1368 01:01:34,420 --> 01:01:32,210 been there for quite a while and it 1369 01:01:37,690 --> 01:01:34,430 could be one you know some of anything 1370 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:37,700 it so that the fact that she claimed 1371 01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:40,370 that all of her samples were were 1372 01:01:47,020 --> 01:01:43,550 Sasquatch had no idea that she had said 1373 01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:47,030 that and one of the samples that held at 1374 01:01:51,250 --> 01:01:48,410 the central position and hole in that 1375 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:51,260 hole analysis and meshed her study 1376 01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:54,770 with the remarkably dubious experiences 1377 01:02:02,320 --> 01:01:57,770 of Justin schmao they suppose a you know 1378 01:02:05,470 --> 01:02:02,330 killer of a sasquatch in California and 1379 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:05,480 and I was involved with that from very 1380 01:02:10,570 --> 01:02:07,970 early on and it became very obvious that 1381 01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:10,580 that there was no credibility there and 1382 01:02:15,820 --> 01:02:12,770 that the sample that you'd collected was 1383 01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:15,830 not primate you know and I all I had to 1384 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:18,050 do was look at it under a you know a 1385 01:02:23,170 --> 01:02:20,690 jeweler's loupe and and could tell you 1386 01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:23,180 that it was it was fur it was not hair 1387 01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:25,850 of a primate it was fur at the time I 1388 01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:27,680 thought it was most just looking at it 1389 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:29,930 visually with a 15 power loop was 1390 01:02:34,300 --> 01:02:31,850 probably something like a coyote it 1391 01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:34,310 turned out it was bear as was confirmed 1392 01:02:40,630 --> 01:02:37,520 by two independent labs separately and 1393 01:02:42,460 --> 01:02:40,640 yet she still included that in her study 1394 01:02:47,350 --> 01:02:42,470 and said that it was the best sample the 1395 01:02:50,620 --> 01:02:47,360 jad oh god yeah yeah it was it was 1396 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:50,630 unfortunately where it was it was a huge 1397 01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:54,130 distraction well that's that study and 1398 01:02:58,270 --> 01:02:56,330 because that prompted me I mean our our 1399 01:03:00,640 --> 01:02:58,280 my principle objective in 1400 01:03:03,610 --> 01:03:00,650 field was to garner tissues from which 1401 01:03:06,550 --> 01:03:03,620 we could do DNA analysis and so when she 1402 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:06,560 claimed that she had you know dozens and 1403 01:03:11,740 --> 01:03:08,690 dozens of samples already submitted to 1404 01:03:14,530 --> 01:03:11,750 her I kind of pulled back on our on our 1405 01:03:16,510 --> 01:03:14,540 field efforts and focused you know it 1406 01:03:18,910 --> 01:03:16,520 wasn't a waste of time because I focused 1407 01:03:21,130 --> 01:03:18,920 attention on things like launching the 1408 01:03:23,980 --> 01:03:21,140 relic hominid inquiry and our virtual 1409 01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:23,990 footprints archive and other sort of 1410 01:03:30,100 --> 01:03:27,200 laboratory based studies and analyses to 1411 01:03:32,290 --> 01:03:30,110 further those but you know we were 1412 01:03:34,740 --> 01:03:32,300 crossing our fingers that she was gonna 1413 01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:34,750 you know pull the rabbit out of the Hat 1414 01:03:42,130 --> 01:03:39,440 unfortunately that's what she pulled out 1415 01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:42,140 a bear some coyotes may be yeah lions 1416 01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:43,280 and tigers and bears oh my 1417 01:03:47,950 --> 01:03:45,440 we're gonna have more creatures coming 1418 01:03:49,570 --> 01:03:47,960 at us if we don't do our break there 1419 01:03:57,260 --> 01:03:49,580 Jeffrey Meldrum with gene and Chris 1420 01:04:02,400 --> 01:03:59,760 neighbors I want to tell you about my 1421 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:02,410 favorite graphics app it's the 1422 01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:04,810 award-winning graphic converter you know 1423 01:04:08,670 --> 01:04:06,790 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the power 1521 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:09,030 sent it to news at the para caste calm 1522 01:08:14,750 --> 01:08:12,810 that's news at the para caste calm and 1523 01:08:17,930 --> 01:08:14,760 don't forget to visit our famous para 1524 01:08:21,740 --> 01:08:17,940 caste community forums at forum dot the 1525 01:08:23,300 --> 01:08:21,750 para caste calm welcome back everyone 1526 01:08:25,370 --> 01:08:23,310 we've been talking with dr. Jeffrey 1527 01:08:26,990 --> 01:08:25,380 Meldrum here and and we do have quite a 1528 01:08:29,570 --> 01:08:27,000 number of questions we have covered a 1529 01:08:33,290 --> 01:08:29,580 lot of them already I have one though 1530 01:08:35,990 --> 01:08:33,300 that I think is the $64,000 question do 1531 01:08:38,210 --> 01:08:36,000 we have you need DNA evidence that 1532 01:08:42,440 --> 01:08:38,220 supports the existence of a bigfoot-type 1533 01:08:44,180 --> 01:08:42,450 animal do do we have any yes no short 1534 01:08:46,490 --> 01:08:44,190 answer is no unfortunately we don't I 1535 01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:46,500 mean there there been a couple of little 1536 01:08:52,550 --> 01:08:49,890 suggestive things you may remember the 1537 01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:52,560 documentary from Monster quest 1538 01:08:58,400 --> 01:08:54,960 where we went up to the Snelgrove lake 1539 01:09:00,710 --> 01:08:58,410 in Ontario yeah had rocks thrown at us 1540 01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:00,720 and there was that infamous nail board 1541 01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:02,940 or screw board and tissues were 1542 01:09:08,050 --> 01:09:05,330 collected from that and one of the 1543 01:09:10,730 --> 01:09:08,060 participants in that outing Kurt Nelson 1544 01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:10,740 went to great lengths to try to get DNA 1545 01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:14,130 from a badly degraded sample and was 1546 01:09:19,010 --> 01:09:16,410 only able to get a small fragment of 1547 01:09:22,790 --> 01:09:19,020 about 300 base pairs but there was an 1548 01:09:25,070 --> 01:09:22,800 interesting substitution that had not 1549 01:09:27,380 --> 01:09:25,080 been reported for humans but was common 1550 01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:27,390 to chimpanzees you know so we know it 1551 01:09:33,410 --> 01:09:30,480 was a chimpanzee DNA up there but with 1552 01:09:36,310 --> 01:09:33,420 only 300 bases and and given the the 1553 01:09:38,930 --> 01:09:36,320 extraordinary lengths he had to go to to 1554 01:09:41,750 --> 01:09:38,940 isolate and purify that sample you know 1555 01:09:43,580 --> 01:09:41,760 the more you manipulate the more chances 1556 01:09:46,910 --> 01:09:43,590 there are for a miss Reed or some 1557 01:09:48,710 --> 01:09:46,920 alteration right and so one out of 300 1558 01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:48,720 just isn't enough so that was suggestive 1559 01:09:54,590 --> 01:09:52,080 but all of Melba's is unreliable is not 1560 01:09:56,570 --> 01:09:54,600 definitive by any means of an of an 1561 01:09:59,240 --> 01:09:56,580 unknown species and certainly not some 1562 01:10:01,640 --> 01:09:59,250 hybrid as she has advocated had 1563 01:10:03,770 --> 01:10:01,650 advocated long before she ever had DNA 1564 01:10:05,570 --> 01:10:03,780 samples what was the term that you used 1565 01:10:07,550 --> 01:10:05,580 the god gene or something that just 1566 01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:07,560 absolutely blew the the whole thing out 1567 01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:09,210 of the water just just from that one 1568 01:10:14,030 --> 01:10:11,520 term oh yeah I'm not familiar with that 1569 01:10:15,620 --> 01:10:14,040 I get caught yeah cut me off put it 1570 01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:15,630 there on that one I was some term in 1571 01:10:20,190 --> 01:10:17,530 there that that just but the the 1572 01:10:23,730 --> 01:10:20,200 debunkers jumped all over it oh well 1573 01:10:26,940 --> 01:10:23,740 well the most ridiculous things was when 1574 01:10:29,580 --> 01:10:26,950 she published the minimum spanning tree 1575 01:10:31,980 --> 01:10:29,590 to show the affiliation the closest 1576 01:10:35,610 --> 01:10:31,990 affiliations of the sequences to other 1577 01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:35,620 taxa that she had garnered from from the 1578 01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:39,570 databases one of the closest ties was to 1579 01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:44,770 Galago Cressida a you know a Galago it's 1580 01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:47,050 a little prosimian a lemur like thing 1581 01:10:52,380 --> 01:10:50,800 from Madagascar and she went when 1582 01:10:53,850 --> 01:10:52,390 describing this on the radio at one 1583 01:10:56,430 --> 01:10:53,860 point she said you know this this was 1584 01:10:59,700 --> 01:10:56,440 struck us as very odd until we learned 1585 01:11:02,040 --> 01:10:59,710 that there was a subfossil lemur that 1586 01:11:04,170 --> 01:11:02,050 weighed 400 pounds in Madagascar that 1587 01:11:07,470 --> 01:11:04,180 only extinct you know ten thousand years 1588 01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:07,480 ago I did not know that well yeah so but 1589 01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:11,050 so we went from a some subhuman hooking 1590 01:11:20,580 --> 01:11:16,210 up with a European human female to now 1591 01:11:23,420 --> 01:11:20,590 we've got we've got a human female of 1592 01:11:26,130 --> 01:11:23,430 15,000 years ago in Europe somehow 1593 01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:26,140 making it down to Madagascar to hook up 1594 01:11:32,580 --> 01:11:29,770 with a 400-pound lemur dang she gets 1595 01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:32,590 around and from that produced the 1596 01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:34,930 lineage that gave rise to Sasquatch in 1597 01:11:39,930 --> 01:11:36,730 North America and it sounds like a real 1598 01:11:42,650 --> 01:11:39,940 party girl yeah so anyway so that that's 1599 01:11:45,690 --> 01:11:42,660 the the lengths that it went into 1600 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:45,700 incredulity but but then unfortunately 1601 01:11:52,530 --> 01:11:49,410 dr. Sykes is samples did not seem to 1602 01:11:55,380 --> 01:11:52,540 yield wealth it would reportedly did not 1603 01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:55,390 yield any DNA that couldn't readily be 1604 01:12:00,210 --> 01:11:57,370 attributed to common forms of Wildlife 1605 01:12:02,490 --> 01:12:00,220 you know I had been very hopeful when 1606 01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:02,500 dr. Sykes came on the scene that this 1607 01:12:07,050 --> 01:12:04,390 would be you know some redemption for 1608 01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:07,060 the debacle that was the Ketchum study 1609 01:12:12,180 --> 01:12:09,250 and you know I think he went about it 1610 01:12:14,510 --> 01:12:12,190 very systematically although dr. Hart 1611 01:12:18,180 --> 01:12:14,520 shows some of the shortcomings in his 1612 01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:18,190 experimental design as well and but 1613 01:12:24,690 --> 01:12:20,710 nevertheless I had offered to you know 1614 01:12:27,780 --> 01:12:24,700 as I said when when I am given hair 1615 01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:27,790 samples there's a lot of chaff there to 1616 01:12:30,420 --> 01:12:29,290 be winnowed away from the from the 1617 01:12:32,430 --> 01:12:30,430 kernel and 1618 01:12:34,380 --> 01:12:32,440 I offered to screen the samples because 1619 01:12:37,410 --> 01:12:34,390 I knew that if he put out a call for 1620 01:12:40,740 --> 01:12:37,420 specimens he'd receive everything under 1621 01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:40,750 the Sun you know and why waste our time 1622 01:12:47,580 --> 01:12:44,610 and effort on things that are obviously 1623 01:12:49,890 --> 01:12:47,590 dear or I gotta have a filter or some 1624 01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:49,900 sort of screening process absolutely you 1625 01:12:54,180 --> 01:12:51,850 know focus your beam a little bit here 1626 01:12:57,930 --> 01:12:54,190 he's in he didn't want to impose any 1627 01:13:00,300 --> 01:12:57,940 preconceptions on the sampling so as you 1628 01:13:03,690 --> 01:13:00,310 can expect everything you know his his 1629 01:13:06,150 --> 01:13:03,700 results were spanned the gambit even to 1630 01:13:08,550 --> 01:13:06,160 porcupine from Texas and I could hold 1631 01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:08,560 the porcupine guard hair up to the light 1632 01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:10,270 and tell you it wasn't the Sasquatch 1633 01:13:15,150 --> 01:13:12,690 hair you know it's that kind of 1634 01:13:17,220 --> 01:13:15,160 unfortunate waste of time and energy and 1635 01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:17,230 but then there were also some other I 1636 01:13:21,090 --> 01:13:18,730 mean there were a number of samples that 1637 01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:21,100 went unaccounted for there were a number 1638 01:13:27,210 --> 01:13:24,370 that I personally sent to him that that 1639 01:13:29,810 --> 01:13:27,220 I did screen that matched what we think 1640 01:13:32,700 --> 01:13:29,820 is the gold standard of morphology 1641 01:13:34,770 --> 01:13:32,710 perfectly I mean they these were samples 1642 01:13:37,140 --> 01:13:34,780 that came from that were a couple from 1643 01:13:39,630 --> 01:13:37,150 Texas there was one from British 1644 01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:39,640 Columbia one from Washington I remember 1645 01:13:45,570 --> 01:13:43,510 and they they just you know looked spot 1646 01:13:48,150 --> 01:13:45,580 on what we think a Sasquatch hair looks 1647 01:13:50,610 --> 01:13:48,160 like under the microscope and they 1648 01:13:53,010 --> 01:13:50,620 didn't seem to be included so my fear 1649 01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:53,020 was that there were samples that 1650 01:14:00,030 --> 01:13:56,650 morphologically were very spot on but as 1651 01:14:02,100 --> 01:14:00,040 has been the case in the past have we've 1652 01:14:05,100 --> 01:14:02,110 been unable to get DNA from them because 1653 01:14:08,130 --> 01:14:05,110 they have features like a cellular 1654 01:14:11,220 --> 01:14:08,140 medulla that makes extracting DNA from a 1655 01:14:15,150 --> 01:14:11,230 hair shaft without an actively growing 1656 01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:15,160 bulb a follicle rather challenging and 1657 01:14:21,930 --> 01:14:17,920 so I've not followed through with this 1658 01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:21,940 query to dr. Sykes but I'm I suspect 1659 01:14:27,780 --> 01:14:24,730 that some of the samples that didn't 1660 01:14:29,070 --> 01:14:27,790 yield DNA went unreported and in fact 1661 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:29,080 those might have been the most 1662 01:14:34,590 --> 01:14:31,930 interesting interesting how that that's 1663 01:14:36,900 --> 01:14:34,600 the case well yeah 1664 01:14:40,140 --> 01:14:36,910 whatever the case may be we're still 1665 01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:40,150 unfortunately at home home plate when it 1666 01:14:44,189 --> 01:14:42,400 comes to we haven't even got the 1667 01:14:48,029 --> 01:14:44,199 first-base yet when it comes to 1668 01:14:50,489 --> 01:14:48,039 a DNA analysis to demonstrate a novel 1669 01:14:52,229 --> 01:14:50,499 species by that means well let's get to 1670 01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:52,239 some of our questions I have a one from 1671 01:14:58,350 --> 01:14:55,690 F workman who's been a poster at forum 1672 01:14:59,850 --> 01:14:58,360 dr. Peric ascom you go to the question 1673 01:15:02,640 --> 01:14:59,860 Bank and you can write your questions 1674 01:15:05,310 --> 01:15:02,650 out that we then relay on to our guests 1675 01:15:07,799 --> 01:15:05,320 this is an interesting one a number of 1676 01:15:11,129 --> 01:15:07,809 cases that I've investigated have 1677 01:15:14,339 --> 01:15:11,139 featured strange premonitions that the 1678 01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:14,349 witness has claims to have had before an 1679 01:15:19,620 --> 01:15:17,050 encounter and his question is some 1680 01:15:21,779 --> 01:15:19,630 witnesses have experienced so-called 1681 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:21,789 paranormal happenings or sensations when 1682 01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:24,010 encountering Bigfoot and he's wondering 1683 01:15:27,689 --> 01:15:25,510 if you have any theories why some 1684 01:15:30,209 --> 01:15:27,699 witness have felt a presence like an 1685 01:15:33,839 --> 01:15:30,219 abnormal feeling of fear or dread before 1686 01:15:36,449 --> 01:15:33,849 a visual olfactory or some sort of sonic 1687 01:15:40,169 --> 01:15:36,459 event that they can in their own minds a 1688 01:15:43,109 --> 01:15:40,179 tribute to Sasquatch right well short of 1689 01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:43,119 appealing to a paranormal or 1690 01:15:50,339 --> 01:15:46,449 parapsychological explanation if there 1691 01:15:52,469 --> 01:15:50,349 is a biological explanation one that I 1692 01:15:54,839 --> 01:15:52,479 have entertained and have discussed at 1693 01:15:57,540 --> 01:15:54,849 some length in my book in the chapter on 1694 01:15:59,729 --> 01:15:57,550 vocalizations is the the notion of 1695 01:16:03,180 --> 01:15:59,739 infrasound and I know that infrasound 1696 01:16:05,910 --> 01:16:03,190 has gotten a lot of mileage and an 1697 01:16:09,209 --> 01:16:05,920 embellishment along the way I think the 1698 01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:09,219 the the term of late has been being 1699 01:16:15,870 --> 01:16:12,369 zapped by a Bigfoot but there is this 1700 01:16:18,449 --> 01:16:15,880 interesting combination of factors we 1701 01:16:20,729 --> 01:16:18,459 know now that a lot of animals employ 1702 01:16:24,239 --> 01:16:20,739 infrasonic frequencies in their 1703 01:16:26,580 --> 01:16:24,249 vocalizations whether it's to broadcast 1704 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:26,590 to their Khan's Pacific's over great 1705 01:16:31,469 --> 01:16:29,530 distance like elephants when it was one 1706 01:16:32,969 --> 01:16:31,479 of the first terrestrial species right 1707 01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:32,979 they could communicate through 30 feet 1708 01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:36,010 of concrete exactly and over kilometers 1709 01:16:39,689 --> 01:16:38,050 of distance more to come with dr. 1710 01:16:48,470 --> 01:16:39,699 Jeffrey Meldrum with gene and Chris 1711 01:16:57,129 --> 01:16:52,120 thank you for listening to GCS 1712 01:17:01,250 --> 01:17:00,020 did you know your car can be hacked just 1713 01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:01,260 like your computer or phone 1714 01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:03,090 hackers can hijack the signal of your 1715 01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:05,730 own key fob to burglarize your vehicle 1716 01:17:09,950 --> 01:17:07,920 in seconds the black hole Faraday key 1717 01:17:12,020 --> 01:17:09,960 fob bag is a signal and penetrable 1718 01:17:14,419 --> 01:17:12,030 shield that stops these hacks in their 1719 01:17:16,939 --> 01:17:14,429 tracks protect one of your most valuable 1720 01:17:19,549 --> 01:17:16,949 assets go to hack proof bag calm 1721 01:17:22,339 --> 01:17:19,559 that's hack proof bag calm and use promo 1722 01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:22,349 code radio to get 20% off or call eight 1723 01:17:26,330 --> 01:17:24,210 zero five two two two four five eight 1724 01:17:28,580 --> 01:17:26,340 four eight zero five two two two four 1725 01:17:29,870 --> 01:17:28,590 five eight four this is Ben Gordon and 1726 01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:29,880 if your teeth are stained from coffee 1727 01:17:34,220 --> 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one five 77098 1769 01:19:01,129 --> 01:19:00,360 non-attorney spokesperson injury help 1770 01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:01,139 desk is responsible for this 1771 01:19:03,890 --> 01:19:02,489 advertisement principal office Las Vegas 1772 01:19:04,850 --> 01:19:03,900 Nevada this ad is not legal advice and 1773 01:19:06,260 --> 01:19:04,860 the choice of a lawyer should not be 1774 01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:06,270 based solely upon advertisement services 1775 01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:07,290 may not be available in all states 1776 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:08,090 attention how 1777 01:19:12,459 --> 01:19:10,010 burn drug users if you or a loved one 1778 01:19:14,140 --> 01:19:12,469 has taken nexium prevacid or prilosec to 1779 01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:14,150 treat heartburn acid reflux or 1780 01:19:17,979 --> 01:19:16,130 indigestion and suffered serious kidney 1781 01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:17,989 damage chronic kidney disease or kidney 1782 01:19:21,070 --> 01:19:19,730 failure you may be entitled to 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helpdesk now you may be 1797 01:19:52,330 --> 01:19:48,650 entitled to substantial financial 1798 01:19:58,140 --> 01:19:52,340 compensation call 800 - - 589 44 that's 1799 01:20:00,640 --> 01:19:58,150 802 - 589 44 again 802 - 589 44 call now 1800 01:20:02,740 --> 01:20:00,650 winter has just begun and are you 1801 01:20:04,300 --> 01:20:02,750 already tired of being cold how would 1802 01:20:06,490 --> 01:20:04,310 you like to never be cold again 1803 01:20:09,220 --> 01:20:06,500 this is Dale with forretress clothing 1804 01:20:11,919 --> 01:20:09,230 and I'm here to tell you you will never 1805 01:20:14,140 --> 01:20:11,929 be cold again with forretress if you're 1806 01:20:16,180 --> 01:20:14,150 tired of freezing your butt off l coming 1807 01:20:19,780 --> 01:20:16,190 sitting in a tree stand deer hunting 1808 01:20:22,359 --> 01:20:19,790 winter camping fishing ice fishing no 1809 01:20:26,109 --> 01:20:22,369 longer fear the cold if you snowmobile 1810 01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:26,119 ski snowboard get fortress sledding with 1811 01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:28,489 the kids shoveling the walks shopping or 1812 01:20:32,709 --> 01:20:30,290 if you or your spouse get cold feet at 1813 01:20:34,930 --> 01:20:32,719 home get fortress if you're stuck 1814 01:20:37,450 --> 01:20:34,940 outside working in the cold or find 1815 01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:37,460 yourself in an emergency situation get 1816 01:20:41,770 --> 01:20:39,530 our winter bug out bag and you will 1817 01:20:43,540 --> 01:20:41,780 never be cold again fortress is the 1818 01:20:45,100 --> 01:20:43,550 answer so quit complaining and go to 1819 01:20:46,839 --> 01:20:45,110 fortress clothing calm 1820 01:20:49,060 --> 01:20:46,849 it's a mid-layer garment that goes with 1821 01:20:52,689 --> 01:20:49,070 anything you want to wear enter coupon 1822 01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:52,699 code radio and get 20% off any item go 1823 01:21:00,130 --> 01:20:54,250 now while we still have inventory 1824 01:21:00,140 --> 01:21:04,190 [Music] 1825 01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:07,470 this is 37 the author of you up on the 1826 01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:09,010 streets and you're listening to the 1827 01:21:15,810 --> 01:21:14,170 podcast hey I heard a commercial the 1828 01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:15,820 other day for a very respectable 1829 01:21:20,940 --> 01:21:18,730 advertiser my pillow you know get very 1830 01:21:24,090 --> 01:21:20,950 comfortable pillow and everything in the 1831 01:21:26,430 --> 01:21:24,100 world you know GCN is signing up some 1832 01:21:29,100 --> 01:21:26,440 mainstream advertisers oh we must be 1833 01:21:30,570 --> 01:21:29,110 doing something right there gene well 1834 01:21:32,729 --> 01:21:30,580 I'm not getting paid for it you're not 1835 01:21:35,130 --> 01:21:32,739 getting paid it doesn't really help we 1836 01:21:36,540 --> 01:21:35,140 have dr. Jeffrey Meldrum and we didn't 1837 01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:36,550 pay him either he's just a nice guy 1838 01:21:41,220 --> 01:21:38,890 that's why he shows up very nice very 1839 01:21:43,170 --> 01:21:41,230 gracious to come on the show we do 1840 01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:43,180 consider ourselves kind of the the 60 1841 01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:45,370 minutes of the paranormal we don't you 1842 01:21:49,260 --> 01:21:47,260 know suspend our disbelief and in 1843 01:21:52,979 --> 01:21:49,270 scratch our guests bellies we make him 1844 01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:52,989 work here's some more questions that are 1845 01:21:57,780 --> 01:21:55,810 pretty interesting this is from Ron away 1846 01:21:59,880 --> 01:21:57,790 he's been a longtime poster at forum dr. 1847 01:22:02,520 --> 01:21:59,890 Peric ascom where you guys get to ask 1848 01:22:04,979 --> 01:22:02,530 questions of our wonderful guests and he 1849 01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:04,989 says as with UFO sightings he believes 1850 01:22:07,890 --> 01:22:06,730 that it is ludicrous to think that all 1851 01:22:11,490 --> 01:22:07,900 Sasquatch sightings are either 1852 01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:11,500 fabricated or a misidentification do you 1853 01:22:15,030 --> 01:22:13,330 believe that the government agencies are 1854 01:22:17,250 --> 01:22:15,040 fully aware of the creatures existence 1855 01:22:19,830 --> 01:22:17,260 and if so what is your favorite theory 1856 01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:19,840 for the cover-up I know there are a lot 1857 01:22:24,870 --> 01:22:22,090 of there are a lot of people out there 1858 01:22:26,940 --> 01:22:24,880 who have experiences or claimed 1859 01:22:29,850 --> 01:22:26,950 experiences with men in black and 1860 01:22:32,660 --> 01:22:29,860 unmarked aircraft and so forth I've not 1861 01:22:36,500 --> 01:22:32,670 had any of those you know either I'm 1862 01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:36,510 disseminating great disinformation 1863 01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:38,890 unwittingly and so they're just letting 1864 01:22:45,180 --> 01:22:41,410 me go or Laura has been suggested that 1865 01:22:46,979 --> 01:22:45,190 if I was intimidated or or accosted that 1866 01:22:48,959 --> 01:22:46,989 it would be I'd be too visual or too 1867 01:22:50,820 --> 01:22:48,969 visible rather too much in the public 1868 01:22:53,430 --> 01:22:50,830 eye so they have to just kind of let me 1869 01:22:56,430 --> 01:22:53,440 go on my own but the experiences I have 1870 01:22:58,860 --> 01:22:56,440 had where there has been intentional 1871 01:23:02,790 --> 01:22:58,870 overt suppression of information or 1872 01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:02,800 evidence it has primarily resulted from 1873 01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:04,810 you know much like in the scientific 1874 01:23:09,180 --> 01:23:06,370 community is this attitude that it can't 1875 01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:09,190 exist it's a wild goose chase I don't 1876 01:23:15,290 --> 01:23:11,370 want I don't want to be embarrassed by 1877 01:23:19,700 --> 01:23:15,300 any reports that are taking place on my 1878 01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:19,710 or - I don't want to be challenged about 1879 01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:22,170 spending taxpayers money you may have 1880 01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:24,930 seen that the ridiculous news coverage 1881 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:27,600 about an event that I participated down 1882 01:23:31,370 --> 01:23:29,010 at the University of New Mexico at 1883 01:23:34,730 --> 01:23:31,380 Gallup yeah we're an unscrupulous 1884 01:23:38,540 --> 01:23:34,740 reporter teamed up with a desperate 1885 01:23:40,910 --> 01:23:38,550 politician to try to create a scandal to 1886 01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:40,920 get publicity for his re-election bid 1887 01:23:47,480 --> 01:23:43,320 apparently is what it seems to boil down 1888 01:23:48,860 --> 01:23:47,490 to but a public event that was was well 1889 01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:48,870 known for months and months and months 1890 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:52,320 it suddenly became a hot topic and and 1891 01:24:00,560 --> 01:23:55,290 the the bottom line was how was state 1892 01:24:04,510 --> 01:24:00,570 money being spent to finance a gathering 1893 01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:04,520 a conference on Bigfoot now and to 1894 01:24:09,890 --> 01:24:07,530 underwrite some field exploration to 1895 01:24:12,020 --> 01:24:09,900 visit some of the sites and see some of 1896 01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:12,030 the habitats and visit with some of the 1897 01:24:17,690 --> 01:24:14,880 local witnesses you know so that those 1898 01:24:20,420 --> 01:24:17,700 two things I think are are much more 1899 01:24:25,130 --> 01:24:20,430 there certainly there's also you know in 1900 01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:25,140 the industry you know the the forest or 1901 01:24:31,490 --> 01:24:27,690 logging industry certainly doesn't want 1902 01:24:33,890 --> 01:24:31,500 to have a lot of amateur investigators 1903 01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:33,900 trumping through and trespassing on 1904 01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:36,330 private property so I think there's a 1905 01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:38,250 potential for suppression of information 1906 01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:41,250 there you hear stories about loggers who 1907 01:24:45,710 --> 01:24:44,010 are told to just don't tell you know 1908 01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:45,720 don't talk about it we don't want to 1909 01:24:50,170 --> 01:24:47,760 draw attention we don't want this to be 1910 01:24:53,330 --> 01:24:50,180 the mother of all spotted owl type 1911 01:24:57,100 --> 01:24:53,340 situations oh boy that would be the last 1912 01:25:02,570 --> 01:24:59,720 you know in the national parks for 1913 01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:02,580 example the I know of Rangers who had 1914 01:25:08,540 --> 01:25:04,410 experiences but they never reported up 1915 01:25:13,730 --> 01:25:08,550 the line and and there's because of fear 1916 01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:13,740 of retribution or criticism or some sort 1917 01:25:16,730 --> 01:25:15,210 of blowback look just like pilots and 1918 01:25:20,420 --> 01:25:16,740 UFO sighting it's the same sort of thing 1919 01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:20,430 right yeah that's very similar well he 1920 01:25:25,340 --> 01:25:23,370 another question from eff workman is 1921 01:25:26,270 --> 01:25:25,350 he's wondering you know you've ever had 1922 01:25:29,210 --> 01:25:26,280 counter during one of your 1923 01:25:31,850 --> 01:25:29,220 investigations or have you had any other 1924 01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:31,860 types of so-called paranormal I put in 1925 01:25:36,140 --> 01:25:33,600 so-called because it's such a catch-all 1926 01:25:39,230 --> 01:25:36,150 phrase so-called paranormal experiences 1927 01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:39,240 while investigating the case well I have 1928 01:25:44,690 --> 01:25:41,250 in the introduction to my book I 1929 01:25:47,540 --> 01:25:44,700 described one close encounter that was 1930 01:25:50,330 --> 01:25:47,550 quite interesting not a visual encounter 1931 01:25:52,250 --> 01:25:50,340 but under the cover of fog that had 1932 01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:52,260 rolled in off the California coast into 1933 01:25:56,630 --> 01:25:54,930 the into the six rivers area 1934 01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:56,640 we had something rifling through 1935 01:26:02,210 --> 01:25:58,800 backpacks and brushing against ten 1936 01:26:05,060 --> 01:26:02,220 against tents and rain flies but able to 1937 01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:05,070 just kind of dissolve back into the into 1938 01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:07,410 the murk when we get out of our tents 1939 01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:11,370 but was leaving 16-inch footprints wow 1940 01:26:16,580 --> 01:26:13,890 that's pretty up close and personal yeah 1941 01:26:19,610 --> 01:26:16,590 I may have had a visual encounter just 1942 01:26:25,460 --> 01:26:19,620 last fall 1943 01:26:28,610 --> 01:26:25,470 not in 2015 I was up in Alberta with an 1944 01:26:30,350 --> 01:26:28,620 investigator there and saw just just a 1945 01:26:33,770 --> 01:26:30,360 silhouetted what what seemed to be a 1946 01:26:35,330 --> 01:26:33,780 silhouetted figure that was in context 1947 01:26:40,060 --> 01:26:35,340 of something that had approached our 1948 01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:40,070 camp was pop and brush had vocalized and 1949 01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:44,250 was reacting to our attempts to talk at 1950 01:26:50,570 --> 01:26:47,810 it you know you you you you try to 1951 01:26:53,060 --> 01:26:50,580 reassuringly speak to it and suddenly it 1952 01:26:56,150 --> 01:26:53,070 sounded like a baseball bat was cracked 1953 01:26:58,960 --> 01:26:56,160 and broken into that kind of thing and 1954 01:27:02,180 --> 01:26:58,970 then it broke from the shadows and and 1955 01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:02,190 quickly walked across the road into the 1956 01:27:07,340 --> 01:27:04,770 shadows the opposite side this being 1957 01:27:09,470 --> 01:27:07,350 observed through night vision not 1958 01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:09,480 certain you know I'd say there's much 1959 01:27:13,220 --> 01:27:11,250 better than a 50/50 chance that it would 1960 01:27:16,250 --> 01:27:13,230 indeed it was a Bigfoot given the 1961 01:27:20,480 --> 01:27:16,260 context especially would up that perhaps 1962 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:20,490 you know to 70% well we're now Berta was 1963 01:27:26,900 --> 01:27:23,850 that it was about midway up straight 1964 01:27:30,580 --> 01:27:26,910 west from Calgary right up against the 1965 01:27:32,930 --> 01:27:30,590 Rocky Mountains just north of the of the 1966 01:27:35,390 --> 01:27:32,940 both shocks just went blank having a 1967 01:27:37,399 --> 01:27:35,400 senior moment here what low around Lake 1968 01:27:39,770 --> 01:27:37,409 Louise Saskatchewan River area there 1969 01:27:40,490 --> 01:27:39,780 yeah yeah roughly I think yet that 1970 01:27:43,550 --> 01:27:40,500 sounds right 1971 01:27:46,010 --> 01:27:43,560 yeah no that's my favorite place in 1972 01:27:50,090 --> 01:27:46,020 North America that's unbelievably 1973 01:27:51,379 --> 01:27:50,100 beautiful up there and that is boy if I 1974 01:27:56,959 --> 01:27:51,389 was a Bigfoot that's where I'd want to 1975 01:28:00,260 --> 01:27:56,969 live I heard years ago the story 1976 01:28:03,950 --> 01:28:00,270 circulating around the local Washington 1977 01:28:06,500 --> 01:28:03,960 State Bigfoot community of a supposedly 1978 01:28:09,050 --> 01:28:06,510 a community of Bigfoot right in the 1979 01:28:10,700 --> 01:28:09,060 center of British Columbia in a very 1980 01:28:12,919 --> 01:28:10,710 very closed off valley that there was 1981 01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:12,929 only one way in and one way out and that 1982 01:28:20,419 --> 01:28:17,250 there were two huge furs or had western 1983 01:28:22,129 --> 01:28:20,429 red cedars or some huge conifer the two 1984 01:28:24,979 --> 01:28:22,139 of them had been pulled down and bowed 1985 01:28:26,750 --> 01:28:24,989 down and tied together lashed together 1986 01:28:30,050 --> 01:28:26,760 like a big McDonald's arch at the 1987 01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:30,060 entrance to this particular valley and 1988 01:28:35,780 --> 01:28:32,850 that there was a sizable community of 1989 01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:35,790 these creatures living in there and it's 1990 01:28:40,669 --> 01:28:37,650 seemed to be some sort of central point 1991 01:28:42,830 --> 01:28:40,679 and that there actually was a social 1992 01:28:44,649 --> 01:28:42,840 very large social group there have you 1993 01:28:48,700 --> 01:28:44,659 ever heard anything like that before I 1994 01:28:51,020 --> 01:28:48,710 haven't no not not to that extent but 1995 01:28:53,330 --> 01:28:51,030 again my question would be you know 1996 01:28:55,820 --> 01:28:53,340 what's the basis for that for that 1997 01:28:59,300 --> 01:28:55,830 assertion is there right right there any 1998 01:29:02,570 --> 01:28:59,310 any evidence to remember it was a bush 1999 01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:02,580 pilot that flew over it and was was so 2000 01:29:07,879 --> 01:29:05,040 frightened about it he did mention it to 2001 01:29:10,669 --> 01:29:07,889 some people but but never really went to 2002 01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:10,679 the authorities or or went anywhere 2003 01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:13,530 further with it because he number one he 2004 01:29:17,510 --> 01:29:15,090 was just too afraid for his own 2005 01:29:21,290 --> 01:29:17,520 reputation as understandably so and and 2006 01:29:22,550 --> 01:29:21,300 number two he felt that that he would he 2007 01:29:25,689 --> 01:29:22,560 felt that he would be doing the 2008 01:29:28,700 --> 01:29:25,699 community a disservice if he actually 2009 01:29:30,260 --> 01:29:28,710 location and people did try to backtrack 2010 01:29:33,169 --> 01:29:30,270 his flight path and stuff I mean there's 2011 01:29:35,450 --> 01:29:33,179 you hear stories all the time that one 2012 01:29:40,070 --> 01:29:35,460 was the only one that I've ever heard 2013 01:29:42,410 --> 01:29:40,080 that talked about an actual group larger 2014 01:29:46,430 --> 01:29:42,420 than let's say a family group as 2015 01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:46,440 described by like an Albert Ostman back 2016 01:29:50,650 --> 01:29:48,690 when he said he was abducted by one and 2017 01:29:54,550 --> 01:29:50,660 brought to a cave blah blah blah 2018 01:29:57,130 --> 01:29:54,560 which I've never really fully kind of 2019 01:29:59,920 --> 01:29:57,140 embraced that particular account but how 2020 01:30:03,430 --> 01:29:59,930 about Jacko well supposedly in the 1880s 2021 01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:03,440 a railroad sideshow kind of circus 2022 01:30:12,580 --> 01:30:09,890 allegedly had a a juvenile Bigfoot that 2023 01:30:13,810 --> 01:30:12,590 was on display for a number of weeks 2024 01:30:17,050 --> 01:30:13,820 that would be able to wrench a part 2025 01:30:19,900 --> 01:30:17,060 would in a very unnatural impossible way 2026 01:30:22,060 --> 01:30:19,910 and and I've been for years I tried to 2027 01:30:24,390 --> 01:30:22,070 search down there's some alleged 2028 01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:24,400 photographs that have been taken of it 2029 01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:26,210 does that ring a bell that was 2030 01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:28,010 absolutely though that's one of the 2031 01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:31,610 classics in or I think the person who's 2032 01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:32,510 probably done some of the most 2033 01:30:36,730 --> 01:30:34,130 investigation of that is Christopher 2034 01:30:38,260 --> 01:30:36,740 Murphy let's do a break here guys we've 2035 01:30:40,180 --> 01:30:38,270 got more to come with dr. Jeffrey 2036 01:30:48,370 --> 01:30:40,190 Meldrum and Jean and Chris you're in a 2037 01:30:58,340 --> 01:30:52,310 you are listening to GCN 2038 01:31:00,320 --> 01:30:58,350 visit GCN live.com today we also have 2039 01:31:03,740 --> 01:31:00,330 swag you know we have all these 2040 01:31:06,230 --> 01:31:03,750 exclusive para cast things that you can 2041 01:31:09,050 --> 01:31:06,240 buy we've got like I guess 60 or so 2042 01:31:12,650 --> 01:31:09,060 different items and entails t-shirts 2043 01:31:15,950 --> 01:31:12,660 sleeves for notebook computers iPad 2044 01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:15,960 cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo 2045 01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:18,330 tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and 2046 01:31:20,510 --> 01:31:20,130 jackets and stuff like that for men and 2047 01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:20,520 women 2048 01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:23,370 we have a para cast aluminum water 2049 01:31:29,150 --> 01:31:25,650 bottle all the stuff you go to steward 2050 01:31:29,960 --> 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attorney response for the content of 2079 01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:32,370 this ad is not legal advice in the 2080 01:32:34,340 --> 01:32:33,330 choice of a lawyer dump you based only 2081 01:32:36,290 --> 01:32:34,350 volunteer Tesla services may not be 2082 01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:36,300 available States attention Xarelto users 2083 01:32:39,950 --> 01:32:38,370 if you are a loved one took Xarelto and 2084 01:32:40,940 --> 01:32:39,960 suffered a serious bleeding event you 2085 01:32:41,780 --> 01:32:40,950 may be entitled to financial 2086 01:32:43,820 --> 01:32:41,790 compensation 2087 01:32:45,290 --> 01:32:43,830 Xarelto is a popular prescription blood 2088 01:32:46,730 --> 01:32:45,300 thinner used to prevent blood clots and 2089 01:32:47,990 --> 01:32:46,740 protect patients from strokes the 2090 01:32:49,700 --> 01:32:48,000 serious bleeding events have led to 2091 01:32:51,740 --> 01:32:49,710 numerous cases of hospitalization and 2092 01:32:54,080 --> 01:32:51,750 even death phone lines are open 24/7 2093 01:32:56,450 --> 01:32:54,090 call 802 six one zero nine three seven 2094 01:32:59,290 --> 01:32:56,460 that's 800 two six one zero nine three 2095 01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:01,450 how confident are you and your food 2096 01:33:07,030 --> 01:33:04,010 storage if it was all you had to rely on 2097 01:33:10,060 --> 01:33:07,040 would it sustain your family hard times 2098 01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:10,070 good times or anytime new manna storable 2099 01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:12,770 food is the proven superior choice learn 2100 01:33:16,330 --> 01:33:14,449 for yourself what happened when one man 2101 01:33:17,109 --> 01:33:16,340 ate only new manna storable food for an 2102 01:33:19,569 --> 01:33:17,119 entire month 2103 01:33:22,089 --> 01:33:19,579 online at power prepper calm that's 2104 01:33:30,790 --> 01:33:22,099 power prepper calm experience the new 2105 01:33:32,770 --> 01:33:30,800 manna difference this is a healthcare 2106 01:33:34,810 --> 01:33:32,780 alert from the pain relief hotline if 2107 01:33:36,910 --> 01:33:34,820 you a family member or a loved one 2108 01:33:38,620 --> 01:33:36,920 suffers from knee back shoulder or ankle 2109 01:33:40,870 --> 01:33:38,630 pain and have Medicare as your primary 2110 01:33:42,879 --> 01:33:40,880 insurance we've got great news you don't 2111 01:33:44,740 --> 01:33:42,889 have to suffer any longer you can 2112 01:33:46,689 --> 01:33:44,750 immediately qualify for a pain relieving 2113 01:33:49,060 --> 01:33:46,699 brace at little or no cost to you by 2114 01:33:51,189 --> 01:33:49,070 calling our 24/7 pain relief hotline at 2115 01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:51,199 eight six six three eight nine zero six 2116 01:33:55,330 --> 01:33:53,090 two zero delivery is free and all 2117 01:33:57,370 --> 01:33:55,340 paperwork is handled for you if you are 2118 01:33:58,120 --> 01:33:57,380 on Medicare and have knee back shoulder 2119 01:34:00,069 --> 01:33:58,130 or ankle pain 2120 01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:00,079 don't wait you can qualify to 2121 01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:01,730 immediately receive a pain relieving 2122 01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:03,770 brace at little or no cost by calling 2123 01:34:08,319 --> 01:34:06,530 our 24/7 pain hotline now at eight six 2124 01:34:10,870 --> 01:34:08,329 six three eight nine zero six two zero 2125 01:34:12,819 --> 01:34:10,880 our representatives are standing by 24/7 2126 01:34:14,830 --> 01:34:12,829 to take your call and rush you your pain 2127 01:34:16,810 --> 01:34:14,840 relieving brace at little or no cost to 2128 01:34:18,790 --> 01:34:16,820 you shipping is free and all paperwork 2129 01:34:20,799 --> 01:34:18,800 is handled for you just call eight six 2130 01:34:23,919 --> 01:34:20,809 six three eight nine zero six two zero 2131 01:34:27,339 --> 01:34:23,929 that's 866 three eight nine zero six two 2132 01:34:30,729 --> 01:34:27,349 zero again 866 three eight nine zero six 2133 01:34:32,950 --> 01:34:30,739 two zero cancer categorizes over 100 2134 01:34:35,500 --> 01:34:32,960 diseases though we do not diagnose treat 2135 01:34:37,629 --> 01:34:35,510 or cure cancer GCN team is offering the 2136 01:34:39,549 --> 01:34:37,639 Clemson University study where there was 2137 01:34:41,919 --> 01:34:39,559 up to a ninety five percent reduction in 2138 01:34:44,290 --> 01:34:41,929 cancerous cells when exposed to a plant 2139 01:34:46,060 --> 01:34:44,300 derived mineral supplement if you or a 2140 01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:46,070 loved one are searching for answers to 2141 01:34:51,010 --> 01:34:48,530 this horrifying disease come to GCN 2142 01:34:53,620 --> 01:34:51,020 team.com or call eight seven seven eight 2143 01:34:55,899 --> 01:34:53,630 seven eight forty 203 will email you a 2144 01:35:00,410 --> 01:34:55,909 copy for free that's eight seven seven 2145 01:35:05,970 --> 01:35:03,120 [Music] 2146 01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:05,980 this is the wrong tire co-author of UFO 2147 01:35:10,810 --> 01:35:08,050 on Cyclopes other books when you're 2148 01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:10,820 listening to the para cast 2149 01:35:26,470 --> 01:35:24,100 so as we progress towards the final leg 2150 01:35:30,460 --> 01:35:26,480 of our journey here let me remind you 2151 01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:30,470 that we do have a free para cast plus 2152 01:35:35,020 --> 01:35:32,330 sampler at our forums that formed out 2153 01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:35,030 the power cast com we have three or four 2154 01:35:39,100 --> 01:35:36,890 samples up there where we give you a 2155 01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:39,110 sample of the commercial free version of 2156 01:35:44,380 --> 01:35:42,050 the power cast a sample of after the 2157 01:35:46,870 --> 01:35:44,390 power cast and one of the videos then 2158 01:35:49,030 --> 01:35:46,880 we've posted and you could check those 2159 01:35:52,300 --> 01:35:49,040 out and if you like what you hear 2160 01:35:55,120 --> 01:35:52,310 just subscribe but plus dot the power 2161 01:36:00,160 --> 01:35:55,130 cast com that's PL us not the power cast 2162 01:36:04,450 --> 01:36:00,170 com the prices start at just $4.99 our 2163 01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:04,460 price cheap SP $4.99 was that less than 2164 01:36:09,610 --> 01:36:06,770 a Starbucks Chris what's a Starbucks 2165 01:36:11,140 --> 01:36:09,620 coffee cost now I have I don't go to 2166 01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:11,150 Starbucks I heard they just recently 2167 01:36:16,420 --> 01:36:13,610 raised their prices so it's even less 2168 01:36:19,390 --> 01:36:16,430 now so therefore the power cast plus 2169 01:36:21,790 --> 01:36:19,400 becomes an ever greater value makes a 2170 01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:21,800 great Christmas gift for your paranormal 2171 01:36:27,370 --> 01:36:25,040 boyfriend or paranormal girlfriend or 2172 01:36:30,270 --> 01:36:27,380 whatever girlfriend or your imaginary 2173 01:36:32,440 --> 01:36:30,280 girlfriend I'm sure she'd like that too 2174 01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:32,450 that's right you can have an imaginary 2175 01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:35,330 viewing plus doc the power cast comm we 2176 01:36:39,340 --> 01:36:38,210 have the not imaginary doctor Jeffrey 2177 01:36:42,700 --> 01:36:39,350 Meldrum I know he's not imaginary 2178 01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:42,710 because he has his webcam on we know you 2179 01:36:47,230 --> 01:36:45,770 actually see he's a real person see no 2180 01:36:49,330 --> 01:36:47,240 one ever sees what I really look like 2181 01:36:51,190 --> 01:36:49,340 they just see this strange avatar 2182 01:36:55,900 --> 01:36:51,200 because we don't want to let them know 2183 01:36:57,820 --> 01:36:55,910 that so my webcam is forever off here's 2184 01:37:00,910 --> 01:36:57,830 a good question Jane from Harry Newton 2185 01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:00,920 who's one of our listeners in the London 2186 01:37:05,770 --> 01:37:03,530 area London England where there are no 2187 01:37:07,210 --> 01:37:05,780 Bigfoot except for occasional 2188 01:37:10,900 --> 01:37:07,220 politicians that Tromp through the 2189 01:37:12,460 --> 01:37:10,910 countryside I finally had a collection 2190 01:37:16,330 --> 01:37:12,470 of those but I didn't want to get into 2191 01:37:19,480 --> 01:37:16,340 politics okay now you are an expert on 2192 01:37:22,870 --> 01:37:19,490 bipedal feet and he's wondering with all 2193 01:37:24,340 --> 01:37:22,880 the wonderful plaster casts you probably 2194 01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:24,350 have one of the largest collections in 2195 01:37:28,670 --> 01:37:25,530 the world I would imagine 2196 01:37:30,440 --> 01:37:28,680 which one is your favorite and why yeah 2197 01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:30,450 I get that asked frequently when I'm at 2198 01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:32,610 conferences and have a variety of these 2199 01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:35,370 on display it's hard to single one out 2200 01:37:41,090 --> 01:37:38,730 because each one has its own unique set 2201 01:37:43,670 --> 01:37:41,100 of circumstances and and often 2202 01:37:45,980 --> 01:37:43,680 illustrates a particular point and so 2203 01:37:50,300 --> 01:37:45,990 I'm you know I utilize many different 2204 01:37:52,670 --> 01:37:50,310 examples to make those points I mean one 2205 01:37:56,450 --> 01:37:52,680 one that then you know I was delighted 2206 01:37:58,460 --> 01:37:56,460 to to have access to was a cast that was 2207 01:38:01,160 --> 01:37:58,470 made by Bob timís at the 2208 01:38:03,970 --> 01:38:01,170 patterson-gimlin film site which has 2209 01:38:07,850 --> 01:38:03,980 proved to be you know quite central to 2210 01:38:10,010 --> 01:38:07,860 my modeling of the form and function of 2211 01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:10,020 the Sasquatch foot and the distinctions 2212 01:38:14,630 --> 01:38:12,210 that it exhibits by comparison by 2213 01:38:16,670 --> 01:38:14,640 contrast to the human foot and this 2214 01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:16,680 track has a very distinctive pressure 2215 01:38:22,850 --> 01:38:19,730 Ridge preserved within it that 2216 01:38:25,130 --> 01:38:22,860 illustrates this function of the mid 2217 01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:25,140 tarsal brake or the mid foot flexibility 2218 01:38:29,060 --> 01:38:27,570 that is it seems to be very 2219 01:38:32,870 --> 01:38:29,070 characteristic of the Sasquatch tracks 2220 01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:32,880 it shows the arch the foot arch well no 2221 01:38:36,830 --> 01:38:34,890 it's not arched that's the whole point 2222 01:38:39,500 --> 01:38:36,840 is you know that the tracks that Roger 2223 01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:39,510 Patterson cast were remarkably flat 2224 01:38:44,540 --> 01:38:42,330 looking no arch with differential 2225 01:38:47,030 --> 01:38:44,550 pressure under the heel involved the 2226 01:38:49,550 --> 01:38:47,040 foot at all and that that caused the 2227 01:38:51,980 --> 01:38:49,560 experts at the time if they can be 2228 01:38:55,430 --> 01:38:51,990 called that you know at that time back 2229 01:38:58,280 --> 01:38:55,440 in the 60s the study of human locomotion 2230 01:39:00,080 --> 01:38:58,290 and footprints was you know as far as 2231 01:39:02,780 --> 01:39:00,090 evolutionary history was was in its 2232 01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:02,790 infancy but because of the flatness of 2233 01:39:06,470 --> 01:39:04,410 the tracks that he presented them with 2234 01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:06,480 it was easy for them to just dismiss 2235 01:39:11,450 --> 01:39:09,210 them as you know the result of static 2236 01:39:11,930 --> 01:39:11,460 prosthetics carved wooden feet you know 2237 01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:11,940 like 2238 01:39:17,780 --> 01:39:15,210 Wallace has asserted but the other track 2239 01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:17,790 show remarkable dynamics and again it's 2240 01:39:22,610 --> 01:39:19,650 not an arch but it's due to that 2241 01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:22,620 flexibility of the flat foot the heel is 2242 01:39:28,370 --> 01:39:26,010 elevated first with flexion through the 2243 01:39:30,590 --> 01:39:28,380 mid foot weight transferred to the 2244 01:39:33,050 --> 01:39:30,600 forefoot and under the appropriate 2245 01:39:35,540 --> 01:39:33,060 conditions plasticity of the substrate 2246 01:39:38,810 --> 01:39:35,550 and the forward impulse you'll sometimes 2247 01:39:40,370 --> 01:39:38,820 get a pressure release or pressure disc 2248 01:39:43,310 --> 01:39:40,380 okay so it's a release from the front 2249 01:39:45,590 --> 01:39:43,320 towards the back yes exactly okay 2250 01:39:46,490 --> 01:39:45,600 sometimes it actually displaces material 2251 01:39:48,830 --> 01:39:46,500 back into the heel 2252 01:39:51,350 --> 01:39:48,840 sometimes it just causes it to hump up 2253 01:39:53,230 --> 01:39:51,360 as that downward pressure of the 2254 01:39:55,490 --> 01:39:53,240 forefoot just displaces some of the 2255 01:39:57,020 --> 01:39:55,500 material backward and then probably the 2256 01:39:59,150 --> 01:39:57,030 faster speed bump 2257 01:40:00,410 --> 01:39:59,160 the faster walks probably the more 2258 01:40:02,150 --> 01:40:00,420 you're gonna see that I would like 2259 01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:02,160 exactly you know it's just like when we 2260 01:40:07,190 --> 01:40:04,770 walk down the beach we'll push up in a 2261 01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:07,200 similar fashion behind the ball of the 2262 01:40:10,970 --> 01:40:08,730 foot right there at the base of our big 2263 01:40:12,440 --> 01:40:10,980 toe or we'll kick up some material from 2264 01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:12,450 our toes at themselves because 2265 01:40:16,850 --> 01:40:14,370 especially the big toe where we push off 2266 01:40:19,250 --> 01:40:16,860 through that big toe the Sasquatch seems 2267 01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:19,260 to push off from the fore part of the 2268 01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:22,410 foot in its entirety the the toes are 2269 01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:24,810 there primarily for traction but not so 2270 01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:29,010 much for propulsion and so that timís 2271 01:40:33,260 --> 01:40:31,170 track illustrates that principle very 2272 01:40:35,960 --> 01:40:33,270 very well but but there are many others 2273 01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:35,970 there that also show the remarkable 2274 01:40:41,150 --> 01:40:39,210 degree of mobility of the foot in in 2275 01:40:43,250 --> 01:40:41,160 supination and pronation you know the 2276 01:40:46,430 --> 01:40:43,260 twisting of the fourth or relative to 2277 01:40:48,290 --> 01:40:46,440 the hind foot and it is just it's truly 2278 01:40:50,330 --> 01:40:48,300 amazing it was as I get talking about it 2279 01:40:53,290 --> 01:40:50,340 I don't know if the excitement comes 2280 01:40:55,580 --> 01:40:53,300 through people yes I know and I'm 2281 01:40:57,860 --> 01:40:55,590 believe me at it excites me too because 2282 01:41:00,290 --> 01:40:57,870 someone who knows as much about this 2283 01:41:03,260 --> 01:41:00,300 subject of being involved in this in 2284 01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:03,270 this particular type of research is you 2285 01:41:07,250 --> 01:41:04,890 know I mean we're very fortunate to have 2286 01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:07,260 you and and Harry wanted me to pass 2287 01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:10,290 along a thank you on his behalf because 2288 01:41:15,140 --> 01:41:13,170 he's as a result of your work and others 2289 01:41:17,270 --> 01:41:15,150 he has become very very fascinated with 2290 01:41:19,610 --> 01:41:17,280 the subject and big thumbs up from Harry 2291 01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:19,620 Newton in London well thank you I was 2292 01:41:24,440 --> 01:41:22,080 able to make a presentation to a group 2293 01:41:26,570 --> 01:41:24,450 of podiatrists an orthopedist at the 2294 01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:26,580 Massachusetts General Hospital for a 2295 01:41:31,250 --> 01:41:29,280 speaking engagement and I tell you it 2296 01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:31,260 was it was just it was fun it was sheer 2297 01:41:39,020 --> 01:41:34,610 fun to be able to talk shop with a 2298 01:41:41,450 --> 01:41:39,030 roomful you know 75 plus clinicians who 2299 01:41:44,300 --> 01:41:41,460 could appreciate and were conversant in 2300 01:41:48,140 --> 01:41:44,310 the form and function of the foot well 2301 01:41:49,940 --> 01:41:48,150 and it's pathology in fact I have I left 2302 01:41:52,729 --> 01:41:49,950 with the department chairman another of 2303 01:41:55,220 --> 01:41:52,739 my favorite the pet of the Boz Berg 2304 01:41:57,890 --> 01:41:55,230 crippled foot pair the crippled track oh 2305 01:41:59,799 --> 01:41:57,900 that's a famous one that is and you know 2306 01:42:01,850 --> 01:41:59,809 it unfortunately has a bit of a pall 2307 01:42:04,819 --> 01:42:01,860 hanging over it because of its 2308 01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:04,829 association with Ivan Marx you know we 2309 01:42:09,020 --> 01:42:06,570 know hoaxed a number of different things 2310 01:42:11,209 --> 01:42:09,030 but but in this case you know as I've 2311 01:42:14,060 --> 01:42:11,219 often said even a blind squirrel finds a 2312 01:42:16,729 --> 01:42:14,070 nut and I think this was an amazing nut 2313 01:42:19,370 --> 01:42:16,739 that he found because discussing that 2314 01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:19,380 that particular case with these 2315 01:42:24,620 --> 01:42:21,690 clinicians and the interpretation of the 2316 01:42:28,339 --> 01:42:24,630 pathology and the possible trauma to the 2317 01:42:30,620 --> 01:42:28,349 foot I left a replica pair of those 2318 01:42:33,379 --> 01:42:30,630 tracks with the department head and 2319 01:42:40,089 --> 01:42:33,389 they're on display in the office and the 2320 01:42:43,370 --> 01:42:40,099 clinicians were fascinated you know I 2321 01:42:45,259 --> 01:42:43,380 love it you know from time to time you 2322 01:42:48,609 --> 01:42:45,269 you encounter cases and I'm sure you 2323 01:42:50,899 --> 01:42:48,619 have to where there's there's seemingly 2324 01:42:53,089 --> 01:42:50,909 there's just elements of the case that 2325 01:42:55,100 --> 01:42:53,099 that even though trace evidence is left 2326 01:42:55,729 --> 01:42:55,110 behind there's something that doesn't 2327 01:42:57,979 --> 01:42:55,739 add up 2328 01:43:00,200 --> 01:42:57,989 I'll give you an example my brother had 2329 01:43:02,810 --> 01:43:00,210 an encounter wasn't visual but they were 2330 01:43:05,209 --> 01:43:02,820 on horseback they were on a logging road 2331 01:43:07,700 --> 01:43:05,219 between gold bar and startup Washington 2332 01:43:10,669 --> 01:43:07,710 just below Stevens Pass it was a is a 2333 01:43:13,370 --> 01:43:10,679 moist day you know in the Cascades they 2334 01:43:15,859 --> 01:43:13,380 were on a logging road that had kind of 2335 01:43:17,450 --> 01:43:15,869 compressed clay that was wet and the 2336 01:43:19,430 --> 01:43:17,460 horses all of a sudden started freaking 2337 01:43:21,200 --> 01:43:19,440 out and so they had to get off and calm 2338 01:43:23,689 --> 01:43:21,210 the horses down then they had the smell 2339 01:43:26,209 --> 01:43:23,699 and they led the horses around the 2340 01:43:28,399 --> 01:43:26,219 corner kind of around the bend in the 2341 01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:28,409 logging road and they encountered five 2342 01:43:33,620 --> 01:43:31,650 footprints one was on the it was going 2343 01:43:35,930 --> 01:43:33,630 from from right to left across the road 2344 01:43:37,819 --> 01:43:35,940 there was one footprint on this side of 2345 01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:37,829 the road one in the middle of the road 2346 01:43:42,770 --> 01:43:39,570 one on the other side of the road a 2347 01:43:45,919 --> 01:43:42,780 swooped footprint going up a kind of a 2348 01:43:48,950 --> 01:43:45,929 the cut in the the mountainside they 2349 01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:48,960 broken pine bough a very large branch 2350 01:43:52,700 --> 01:43:50,610 had been broken like it had grabbed it 2351 01:43:55,819 --> 01:43:52,710 to pull itself up but there were no 2352 01:43:58,700 --> 01:43:55,829 tracks approaching the road and no 2353 01:44:00,620 --> 01:43:58,710 tracks leaving the road the track in the 2354 01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:00,630 middle of the road was so pristine that 2355 01:44:06,439 --> 01:44:03,210 there was like fingerprints of the foot 2356 01:44:09,500 --> 01:44:06,449 we compressed in the in the wet clay 2357 01:44:11,330 --> 01:44:09,510 that left actual dermal impressions the 2358 01:44:13,729 --> 01:44:11,340 University of Washington came up this 2359 01:44:17,449 --> 01:44:13,739 was in trying to remember the date this 2360 01:44:21,259 --> 01:44:17,459 would have been the fall of 73 I think 2361 01:44:24,830 --> 01:44:21,269 or the possibly 74 I forget how do you 2362 01:44:27,319 --> 01:44:24,840 explain a trackway that only consists of 2363 01:44:30,529 --> 01:44:27,329 five prints with none approaching the 2364 01:44:33,290 --> 01:44:30,539 trackway and none leaving it where there 2365 01:44:34,819 --> 01:44:33,300 should have been trace evidence is there 2366 01:44:36,679 --> 01:44:34,829 some sort of paranormal I guess the 2367 01:44:39,620 --> 01:44:36,689 question is do we have some sort of 2368 01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:39,630 paranormal aspect here some sort of 2369 01:44:45,109 --> 01:44:43,199 being able to blink in and out of 2370 01:44:46,969 --> 01:44:45,119 reality I know a lot of the 40 ins 2371 01:44:49,159 --> 01:44:46,979 believe that this is some sort of 2372 01:44:53,359 --> 01:44:49,169 paranormal creature and is not just 2373 01:44:54,830 --> 01:44:53,369 purely an undiscovered species of animal 2374 01:44:56,089 --> 01:44:54,840 that there's something paranormal about 2375 01:44:57,589 --> 01:44:56,099 it where do you come down with those 2376 01:45:00,709 --> 01:44:57,599 types of theories in those types of 2377 01:45:04,639 --> 01:45:00,719 cases well my again my experience has 2378 01:45:09,699 --> 01:45:04,649 been that what appears to be a sudden 2379 01:45:13,639 --> 01:45:09,709 start and sudden stop really isn't that 2380 01:45:15,500 --> 01:45:13,649 you know that the conditions may have 2381 01:45:17,270 --> 01:45:15,510 been depending on how fresh that sounds 2382 01:45:19,909 --> 01:45:17,280 like now this is one of those situations 2383 01:45:22,580 --> 01:45:19,919 where the strange creatures who manage 2384 01:45:25,069 --> 01:45:22,590 the collection of advertising that we 2385 01:45:27,319 --> 01:45:25,079 present on the para cast are here to 2386 01:45:29,449 --> 01:45:27,329 tell us we've got to stop we have dr. 2387 01:45:31,050 --> 01:45:29,459 Jeffrey Meldrum with gene and Chris 2388 01:45:39,530 --> 01:45:31,060 you're in the para cast 2389 01:45:47,240 --> 01:45:44,160 thank you for listening to GCN be sure 2390 01:45:49,710 --> 01:45:47,250 to visit GCN live.com today 2391 01:45:51,480 --> 01:45:49,720 attack of the rock AIDS has been 2392 01:45:53,460 --> 01:45:51,490 well-received by critics and readers 2393 01:45:56,250 --> 01:45:53,470 alike it's a thrill a minute story 2394 01:45:58,590 --> 01:45:56,260 you'll never forget a former US military 2395 01:46:00,870 --> 01:45:58,600 intelligence officer is haunted by 2396 01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:00,880 intense dreams about a beautiful woman 2397 01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:03,520 pleading for his help after a terrible 2398 01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:06,250 battle in outer space but the dreams 2399 01:46:10,350 --> 01:46:08,530 turn out to be true and thrust him into 2400 01:46:12,990 --> 01:46:10,360 a telepathic love affair with a woman 2401 01:46:15,390 --> 01:46:13,000 whose faraway planet is intent on 2402 01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:15,400 destroying the earth and now the 2403 01:46:20,670 --> 01:46:18,250 gripping tale continues in the coming of 2404 01:46:23,310 --> 01:46:20,680 the protectors it's the second book of 2405 01:46:25,500 --> 01:46:23,320 the raccoons trilogy a galaxy spanning 2406 01:46:28,530 --> 01:46:25,510 adventure that pits our hapless heroes 2407 01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:28,540 against powerful fanatical enemies that 2408 01:46:31,860 --> 01:46:30,370 threaten the lives of freedom loving 2409 01:46:34,770 --> 01:46:31,870 beings everywhere 2410 01:46:37,320 --> 01:46:34,780 attack of the rock aids and the coming 2411 01:46:40,590 --> 01:46:37,330 of the protectors classic science 2412 01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:40,600 fiction at its best available now for 2413 01:46:51,210 --> 01:46:43,810 more details visit Rocko is calm that's 2414 01:46:53,940 --> 01:46:51,220 our Ock o IDs dot-com bad theater seats 2415 01:46:56,520 --> 01:46:53,950 cheap Halloween masks my apartment all 2416 01:46:59,670 --> 01:46:56,530 things with obstructed views add to 2417 01:47:01,680 --> 01:46:59,680 these large trucks and buses 18 wheelers 2418 01:47:03,870 --> 01:47:01,690 and large buses have big blind spots and 2419 01:47:06,690 --> 01:47:03,880 like my apartment they don't always have 2420 01:47:08,250 --> 01:47:06,700 the best view bus and truck drivers deal 2421 01:47:10,950 --> 01:47:08,260 with blind spots around the entire 2422 01:47:13,230 --> 01:47:10,960 vehicle always take care not to ride 2423 01:47:16,470 --> 01:47:13,240 alongside or to close behind them our 2424 01:47:19,950 --> 01:47:16,480 roads our responsibility learn more and 2425 01:47:22,050 --> 01:47:19,960 share the road safely gov fully cooks 2426 01:47:24,300 --> 01:47:22,060 ready to eat bacon I'm talking thick 2427 01:47:27,300 --> 01:47:24,310 meaty center-cut presidential bacon 2428 01:47:29,700 --> 01:47:27,310 savory and delicious I buy some I use 2429 01:47:31,470 --> 01:47:29,710 some I store some awesome no 2430 01:47:32,550 --> 01:47:31,480 refrigeration needed with a 10 year 2431 01:47:35,460 --> 01:47:32,560 shelf-life 2432 01:47:37,860 --> 01:47:35,470 NASA pack technology bacon fully cooked 2433 01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:37,870 fully hydrated ready to eat right from 2434 01:47:43,020 --> 01:47:40,170 the pack bacon or warm and served 2435 01:47:45,660 --> 01:47:43,030 life-saving ready to eat bacon 10 year 2436 01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:45,670 shelf-life bacon ships free at fully 2437 01:47:59,630 --> 01:47:55,930 [Applause] 2438 01:48:03,259 --> 01:47:59,640 welcome back to the para cast the gold 2439 01:48:11,899 --> 01:48:03,269 standard of paranormal radio 2440 01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:11,909 and now here's Jane Steinberg we have 2441 01:48:16,970 --> 01:48:14,130 dr. Jeffrey Meldrum for several more 2442 01:48:19,970 --> 01:48:16,980 segments of the para cast with Gina and 2443 01:48:21,950 --> 01:48:19,980 Chris were not just giving you our own 2444 01:48:24,290 --> 01:48:21,960 questions but asking the ones that you 2445 01:48:27,680 --> 01:48:24,300 posed in the question Bank at forum dot 2446 01:48:29,989 --> 01:48:27,690 the power cast not come so when we broke 2447 01:48:31,970 --> 01:48:29,999 for our last commercial break dr. 2448 01:48:35,089 --> 01:48:31,980 Meldrum was going to start with a new 2449 01:48:37,220 --> 01:48:35,099 answer to abduction let me just first 2450 01:48:40,069 --> 01:48:37,230 add something there was grass slowly 2451 01:48:42,799 --> 01:48:40,079 rising out of the print below the 2452 01:48:45,500 --> 01:48:42,809 swooped print on the the side of the the 2453 01:48:47,509 --> 01:48:45,510 cut so there was still grass coming up 2454 01:48:50,299 --> 01:48:47,519 out of the print that's how in terms of 2455 01:48:52,790 --> 01:48:50,309 time proximity right so very fresh so 2456 01:48:55,399 --> 01:48:52,800 within yep less than two minutes yeah 2457 01:48:57,979 --> 01:48:55,409 because in some instances I find that 2458 01:49:01,700 --> 01:48:57,989 you know the conditions where the 2459 01:49:04,189 --> 01:49:01,710 footprints had been laid down might have 2460 01:49:08,209 --> 01:49:04,199 been different at the time of the 2461 01:49:09,649 --> 01:49:08,219 passing of the of the track maker and so 2462 01:49:13,430 --> 01:49:09,659 and those can vary and those can vary 2463 01:49:16,129 --> 01:49:13,440 oftentimes in under very or in a very 2464 01:49:18,290 --> 01:49:16,139 short period of time but the question I 2465 01:49:20,089 --> 01:49:18,300 mean the fact that there was grass you 2466 01:49:22,609 --> 01:49:20,099 know and not knowing the condition of 2467 01:49:24,830 --> 01:49:22,619 the forest floor on either side of the 2468 01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:24,840 road and the road cut yeah be hard to 2469 01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:28,170 answer that yeah it's hard to know you 2470 01:49:32,899 --> 01:49:29,730 know there there was this was one of the 2471 01:49:35,739 --> 01:49:32,909 criticisms that a famous tracker Joel 2472 01:49:38,299 --> 01:49:35,749 Hardin a Border Patrol tracker who 2473 01:49:40,489 --> 01:49:38,309 investigated some of the reports in the 2474 01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:40,499 blue mountains outside of Walla Walla in 2475 01:49:46,580 --> 01:49:43,050 southeastern Washington one of his 2476 01:49:49,279 --> 01:49:46,590 criticisms was that the tracks appeared 2477 01:49:53,419 --> 01:49:49,289 to start and stop and this struck me as 2478 01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:53,429 odd and in fact in my opinion just spoke 2479 01:49:58,129 --> 01:49:55,760 to the credibility of the tracks because 2480 01:50:00,950 --> 01:49:58,139 here's a person who is a professional 2481 01:50:02,569 --> 01:50:00,960 tracker not just not like me I don't 2482 01:50:04,669 --> 01:50:02,579 consider myself a professional tracker 2483 01:50:08,660 --> 01:50:04,679 how it started not professional but I 2484 01:50:12,140 --> 01:50:08,670 you know I'm not qualified to follow and 2485 01:50:14,739 --> 01:50:12,150 cut sign which consists of broken blades 2486 01:50:16,790 --> 01:50:14,749 of grass and overturned pebbles and and 2487 01:50:18,650 --> 01:50:16,800 indentations in the pine duffer 2488 01:50:20,510 --> 01:50:18,660 what I mean but but if there's a clear 2489 01:50:23,350 --> 01:50:20,520 footprint I can interpret it and to 2490 01:50:26,870 --> 01:50:23,360 infer the anatomy infer the function and 2491 01:50:28,610 --> 01:50:26,880 and so forth but this individual claimed 2492 01:50:30,770 --> 01:50:28,620 that you know these tracks start stopped 2493 01:50:34,010 --> 01:50:30,780 and started well if if it was as he 2494 01:50:36,830 --> 01:50:34,020 alleged a hoaxer who was donning and 2495 01:50:40,210 --> 01:50:36,840 doffing fake feet he should have been 2496 01:50:43,910 --> 01:50:40,220 able to pick up sign of that person yeah 2497 01:50:47,060 --> 01:50:43,920 yeah the hoaxers sign now you know I I'm 2498 01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:47,070 really hesitant and want to appeal like 2499 01:50:50,750 --> 01:50:48,570 I said before to a paranormal 2500 01:50:53,510 --> 01:50:50,760 explanation I have a hard time 2501 01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:53,520 envisioning or wrapping my head around 2502 01:50:58,160 --> 01:50:56,250 the notion of a of what seems to 2503 01:50:59,810 --> 01:50:58,170 otherwise to be a physical creature who 2504 01:51:03,500 --> 01:50:59,820 would be capable of doing such things 2505 01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:03,510 and yet only appears where there's 16 to 2506 01:51:07,850 --> 01:51:05,970 18 inches of rainfall and you know 2507 01:51:10,340 --> 01:51:07,860 doesn't bother to clean up the scat that 2508 01:51:12,890 --> 01:51:10,350 they leave behind or you know that kind 2509 01:51:15,500 --> 01:51:12,900 of everything that I'm familiar with 2510 01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:15,510 from my own personal experience suggests 2511 01:51:22,190 --> 01:51:19,050 and indicates a biological species and 2512 01:51:24,110 --> 01:51:22,200 organism well it exists biologically and 2513 01:51:26,450 --> 01:51:24,120 in our plane of existence in our 2514 01:51:28,840 --> 01:51:26,460 following our rules of physics and so 2515 01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:28,850 forth I I just don't see this as a 2516 01:51:35,180 --> 01:51:33,090 singular entity or phenomenon that one 2517 01:51:38,150 --> 01:51:35,190 has to just simply because we haven't 2518 01:51:40,940 --> 01:51:38,160 yet found the definitive type specimen 2519 01:51:42,860 --> 01:51:40,950 that we would be justified in resorting 2520 01:51:45,770 --> 01:51:42,870 to a paranormal explanation to get kind 2521 01:51:48,020 --> 01:51:45,780 of an Occam's razor scenario yeah yeah 2522 01:51:49,790 --> 01:51:48,030 you know and autumns razor gets that's 2523 01:51:52,700 --> 01:51:49,800 one of my pet peeves Occam's razor is 2524 01:51:54,850 --> 01:51:52,710 often misused you know his edict was 2525 01:51:57,520 --> 01:51:54,860 essentially that we shouldn't add 2526 01:52:00,080 --> 01:51:57,530 variables we shouldn't add entities 2527 01:52:02,210 --> 01:52:00,090 unnecessarily to ensure that in an 2528 01:52:04,250 --> 01:52:02,220 attempt to explain something he never 2529 01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:04,260 said that the simplest explanation is 2530 01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:06,810 more likely to be true and history 2531 01:52:13,070 --> 01:52:09,810 should have taught us in both in 2532 01:52:17,050 --> 01:52:13,080 evolution for example and and in in 2533 01:52:19,700 --> 01:52:17,060 other areas of science that rarely is 2534 01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:19,710 the science follow the shortest course 2535 01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:22,050 from point A to point B when it when 2536 01:52:25,820 --> 01:52:23,610 you're dealing with historical science 2537 01:52:27,670 --> 01:52:25,830 like evolution for example there's 2538 01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:27,680 there's no way to justify that because 2539 01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:30,090 natural selection has no knowledge of 2540 01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:30,690 what B 2541 01:52:36,350 --> 01:52:33,690 is it's not prescient it can't predict 2542 01:52:37,459 --> 01:52:36,360 the future and so it would have no way 2543 01:52:39,830 --> 01:52:37,469 of knowing what the shortest distance 2544 01:52:41,510 --> 01:52:39,840 would be to the condition that we might 2545 01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:41,520 be experiencing in the future or or 2546 01:52:46,490 --> 01:52:44,250 right now in the present nature solves 2547 01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:46,500 his problems by whatever means and often 2548 01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:49,010 they're very convoluted very complicated 2549 01:52:55,939 --> 01:52:52,530 means like how do evolutionary 2550 01:52:58,250 --> 01:52:55,949 biologists explain the evolution of 2551 01:53:00,020 --> 01:52:58,260 caterpillars being able to go into 2552 01:53:03,350 --> 01:53:00,030 chrysalis and morph into a butterfly 2553 01:53:08,630 --> 01:53:06,439 that's pretty complicated yeah I 2554 01:53:10,850 --> 01:53:08,640 wouldn't resort to paranormal until I 2555 01:53:13,490 --> 01:53:10,860 until I had ruled out the simpler 2556 01:53:15,170 --> 01:53:13,500 explanations right and and one of those 2557 01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:15,180 might be that it's just darn hard to 2558 01:53:22,010 --> 01:53:17,370 pick up the track in in the forest floor 2559 01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:22,020 yeah that's brain that impressed me and 2560 01:53:28,729 --> 01:53:25,130 my first real concerted field experience 2561 01:53:30,979 --> 01:53:28,739 expedition you know setting was how 2562 01:53:33,590 --> 01:53:30,989 little of the ground actually took a 2563 01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:33,600 track very well at least a visible 2564 01:53:39,200 --> 01:53:36,090 discernible footprint that I could study 2565 01:53:40,970 --> 01:53:39,210 and pour a cast of and so forth it was 2566 01:53:43,370 --> 01:53:40,980 very very little surface area out there 2567 01:53:45,320 --> 01:53:43,380 yeah yeah that's true and you really 2568 01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:45,330 have to be good I'm always reminded of 2569 01:53:49,430 --> 01:53:46,770 that scene in Butch Cassidy and the 2570 01:53:53,330 --> 01:53:49,440 Sundance Kid when when the the trackers 2571 01:53:55,400 --> 01:53:53,340 tracking them over just bare rock they 2572 01:53:59,990 --> 01:53:55,410 keep asking so who are those guys how 2573 01:54:02,870 --> 01:54:00,000 can they do that Lord Baltimore I think 2574 01:54:05,060 --> 01:54:02,880 his name was okay some some more 2575 01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:05,070 questions from our listeners vespi hi 2576 01:54:09,170 --> 01:54:07,770 folk whose one of our top posters at the 2577 01:54:10,939 --> 01:54:09,180 Peres cast where you can ask you 2578 01:54:13,910 --> 01:54:10,949 questions of our guests at forum dr. 2579 01:54:15,709 --> 01:54:13,920 Perry cast comm the question Bank he's 2580 01:54:18,260 --> 01:54:15,719 wondering again about hard hard evidence 2581 01:54:21,290 --> 01:54:18,270 now you've mentioned scat do we have 2582 01:54:23,660 --> 01:54:21,300 some stool samples from these creatures 2583 01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:23,670 are you I wasn't aware of that well yes 2584 01:54:28,670 --> 01:54:26,010 there have been reports from from way 2585 01:54:31,790 --> 01:54:28,680 back the early sightings and put in 2586 01:54:35,650 --> 01:54:31,800 first documentation in California back 2587 01:54:39,110 --> 01:54:35,660 in the 50s late fifties extraordinarily 2588 01:54:43,290 --> 01:54:39,120 large but rather human looking scat 2589 01:54:45,959 --> 01:54:43,300 piles there have been some hit and miss 2590 01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:45,969 analyses there was one that Ivan 2591 01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:48,610 Sanderson reported in his book where a 2592 01:54:55,229 --> 01:54:51,610 parasitologist took a look and found the 2593 01:54:58,109 --> 01:54:55,239 the egg husks you know a form of 2594 01:55:01,919 --> 01:54:58,119 parasitic worm that was very unusual for 2595 01:55:06,689 --> 01:55:01,929 something in North America he was 2596 01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:06,699 familiar with them from swine in Asia so 2597 01:55:09,899 --> 01:55:08,050 that was kind of interesting I mean I 2598 01:55:14,419 --> 01:55:09,909 what that means I'm not quite sure just 2599 01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:14,429 that it wasn't a common a common 2600 01:55:19,709 --> 01:55:17,770 combination of characteristics both and 2601 01:55:21,450 --> 01:55:19,719 that was a North American sample that 2602 01:55:23,700 --> 01:55:21,460 was a North American sample yeah wow 2603 01:55:25,620 --> 01:55:23,710 that is interesting we've dealt with a 2604 01:55:29,700 --> 01:55:25,630 lot of different samples and you know 2605 01:55:32,310 --> 01:55:29,710 the problem is that we're dealing with a 2606 01:55:34,620 --> 01:55:32,320 large omnivore and if you're at all 2607 01:55:36,120 --> 01:55:34,630 familiar with bear scat for example 2608 01:55:39,419 --> 01:55:36,130 another on the herbs we've pointed out 2609 01:55:41,669 --> 01:55:39,429 earlier the scat the appearance and 2610 01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:41,679 consistency of the scat will differ 2611 01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:44,050 remarkably depending on what this 2612 01:55:49,979 --> 01:55:47,170 omnivore is eating it's not like you 2613 01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:49,989 know cow pies where they eat nothing but 2614 01:55:54,990 --> 01:55:53,290 grass and straw and so forth and so if 2615 01:55:57,450 --> 01:55:55,000 they're eating berries they're going to 2616 01:55:58,830 --> 01:55:57,460 be runny and blue and have bits of 2617 01:56:00,240 --> 01:55:58,840 berries in it if they're in this 2618 01:56:02,549 --> 01:56:00,250 bitterly spring and they're eating lots 2619 01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:02,559 of grass then it looks more like horse 2620 01:56:07,680 --> 01:56:05,530 manure if they get into a carcass and 2621 01:56:10,140 --> 01:56:07,690 they're eating a lot of the putrifying 2622 01:56:12,479 --> 01:56:10,150 meat a lot of protein then it's dark 2623 01:56:13,979 --> 01:56:12,489 black and tar you know it's it's going 2624 01:56:16,220 --> 01:56:13,989 to change so that I'm sure that the 2625 01:56:18,990 --> 01:56:16,230 Sasquatch scat is going to very 2626 01:56:21,780 --> 01:56:19,000 similarly to that so the weight only way 2627 01:56:24,540 --> 01:56:21,790 really did distinguish it would be you 2628 01:56:31,830 --> 01:56:24,550 know an excessive diameter of that of 2629 01:56:34,859 --> 01:56:31,840 that blog if you will or with DNA 2630 01:56:36,890 --> 01:56:34,869 analysis and unfortunately you have a 2631 01:56:40,290 --> 01:56:36,900 very narrow window you only have about 2632 01:56:42,839 --> 01:56:40,300 at tops eight hours before bacterial 2633 01:56:44,700 --> 01:56:42,849 action will destroy any of the DNA that 2634 01:56:49,950 --> 01:56:44,710 has come off fluffed off with the 2635 01:56:52,799 --> 01:56:49,960 mucosal cells on that and so we had the 2636 01:56:55,740 --> 01:56:52,809 proverbial perfect scat sample I mean I 2637 01:56:57,210 --> 01:56:55,750 always tell individuals don't bother me 2638 01:56:59,550 --> 01:56:57,220 really with with these cats 2639 01:57:03,090 --> 01:56:59,560 until unless they're very fresh you know 2640 01:57:07,560 --> 01:57:03,100 literally located between two cleaner 2641 01:57:10,920 --> 01:57:07,570 footprints and we had there was a case 2642 01:57:13,710 --> 01:57:10,930 in Wyoming where a sasquatch was 2643 01:57:16,230 --> 01:57:13,720 visiting some seasonally occupied cabins 2644 01:57:18,510 --> 01:57:16,240 and was peering into the windows 2645 01:57:21,620 --> 01:57:18,520 especially the kitchen windows where 2646 01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:21,630 dinner was being cooked and just off 2647 01:57:27,930 --> 01:57:24,490 removed from the cabins not too far 2648 01:57:29,820 --> 01:57:27,940 there were two tracks with a scat pile 2649 01:57:33,060 --> 01:57:29,830 right in between them let's talk about 2650 01:57:35,310 --> 01:57:33,070 those tracks in our next segment with 2651 01:57:40,820 --> 01:57:35,320 dr. Jeffrey Meldrum and gene and Chris 2652 01:57:40,830 --> 01:57:46,930 [Music] 2653 01:57:52,070 --> 01:57:49,460 Davers I want to tell you about my 2654 01:57:54,470 --> 01:57:52,080 favorite graphics app it's the 2655 01:57:56,450 --> 01:57:54,480 award-winning graphic converter you know 2656 01:57:58,370 --> 01:57:56,460 graphic converter is the universal 2657 01:58:01,340 --> 01:57:58,380 genius for photo editing on your Mac 2658 01:58:04,100 --> 01:58:01,350 join over one-and-a-half million loyal 2659 01:58:06,920 --> 01:58:04,110 users for this Swiss Army knife photo 2660 01:58:09,260 --> 01:58:06,930 editing app it gives you all you expect 2661 01:58:12,230 --> 01:58:09,270 from a top-flight image editing app with 2662 01:58:16,070 --> 01:58:12,240 tons of features and most important it's 2663 01:58:18,260 --> 01:58:16,080 easy to use it's also far less expensive 2664 01:58:20,660 --> 01:58:18,270 than that other app that you can only 2665 01:58:22,970 --> 01:58:20,670 get by a 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from all of us at 2707 02:00:19,330 --> 02:00:16,070 slingbow industries have a safe joyous 2708 02:00:21,819 --> 02:00:19,340 and peaceful holiday season dangerous 2709 02:00:24,399 --> 02:00:21,829 blood clot device alert if you or a 2710 02:00:26,350 --> 02:00:24,409 loved one had an IVC filter placed to 2711 02:00:28,209 --> 02:00:26,360 prevent blood clots from traveling to 2712 02:00:29,979 --> 02:00:28,219 your heart or lungs and suffered an 2713 02:00:32,199 --> 02:00:29,989 injury you may be entitled to 2714 02:00:35,169 --> 02:00:32,209 substantial financial compensation 2715 02:00:37,569 --> 02:00:35,179 the FDA warns that IVC filters may cause 2716 02:00:39,850 --> 02:00:37,579 serious complications such as heart or 2717 02:00:42,580 --> 02:00:39,860 lung damage internal bleeding and even 2718 02:00:44,529 --> 02:00:42,590 death these dangerous blood clot devices 2719 02:00:46,509 --> 02:00:44,539 can break and the metal fragments can 2720 02:00:48,850 --> 02:00:46,519 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02:01:30,430 --> 02:01:28,670 for life calm now offers a doctor 2735 02:01:32,919 --> 02:01:30,440 recommended UV for life calm 2736 02:01:35,229 --> 02:01:32,929 sterilization unit to kill over 99% of 2737 02:01:37,509 --> 02:01:35,239 viruses bacterias molds and dangerous 2738 02:01:39,819 --> 02:01:37,519 chemicals go to UV for life calm at 2739 02:01:42,370 --> 02:01:39,829 promo code GCN at checkout to save one 2740 02:01:45,850 --> 02:01:42,380 under dollars that's you be the number 2741 02:01:53,530 --> 02:01:45,860 four life.com UV four life.com don't 2742 02:01:59,840 --> 02:01:56,420 today this is Marie D Jones the author 2743 02:02:02,600 --> 02:01:59,850 of this book is from the future and you 2744 02:02:12,910 --> 02:02:02,610 are listening to the podcast the gold 2745 02:02:19,490 --> 02:02:17,180 okay the tracks from the creature tell 2746 02:02:20,930 --> 02:02:19,500 us more well the the tracks were 2747 02:02:23,900 --> 02:02:20,940 extremely clear I mean there was some of 2748 02:02:26,690 --> 02:02:23,910 the best 16-inch tracks I seen and we 2749 02:02:29,510 --> 02:02:26,700 showed all of the hallmarks of mid-foot 2750 02:02:32,420 --> 02:02:29,520 flexibility that you know are indicative 2751 02:02:34,400 --> 02:02:32,430 in my mind of legitimate tracks you know 2752 02:02:36,680 --> 02:02:34,410 not likely to Obinna so they went side 2753 02:02:37,730 --> 02:02:36,690 by side with the heels dug in well where 2754 02:02:40,580 --> 02:02:37,740 they were side by side there was 2755 02:02:42,770 --> 02:02:40,590 actually more weight on the fore part of 2756 02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:42,780 the foot as it okay actually that makes 2757 02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:46,890 sense yeah yeah so that scat sample the 2758 02:02:50,450 --> 02:02:48,570 law is gonna say these tracks were 2759 02:02:52,790 --> 02:02:50,460 followed for probably a quarter of a 2760 02:02:55,070 --> 02:02:52,800 mile and then we had a we had an 2761 02:02:58,190 --> 02:02:55,080 independent sighting reported from that 2762 02:03:00,140 --> 02:02:58,200 area at almost the same time about about 2763 02:03:03,800 --> 02:03:00,150 three or four miles removed from this 2764 02:03:06,770 --> 02:03:03,810 side by a hiker the scat was collected 2765 02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:06,780 unfortunately you know the delay in 2766 02:03:10,970 --> 02:03:09,330 getting the word to us meant that it had 2767 02:03:14,420 --> 02:03:10,980 been out exposed the elements for 2768 02:03:16,100 --> 02:03:14,430 probably Oh a good five or six days but 2769 02:03:19,130 --> 02:03:16,110 we went ahead and collected it it was 2770 02:03:23,830 --> 02:03:19,140 you know roughly human in appearance in 2771 02:03:27,340 --> 02:03:23,840 in shape that is a greater volume but 2772 02:03:31,160 --> 02:03:27,350 completely full of well chewed up edges 2773 02:03:32,390 --> 02:03:31,170 so it wasn't a dog or a carnival or it 2774 02:03:34,730 --> 02:03:32,400 was I mean it could have been a bear 2775 02:03:36,320 --> 02:03:34,740 that was the only other possibility but 2776 02:03:38,540 --> 02:03:36,330 the tracks it was associated with were 2777 02:03:41,360 --> 02:03:38,550 so clear so we went ahead and collected 2778 02:03:43,910 --> 02:03:41,370 some one we sent it off to a DNA lab on 2779 02:03:45,740 --> 02:03:43,920 the off chance that it might have 2780 02:03:47,750 --> 02:03:45,750 something and betcha they just loved to 2781 02:03:49,010 --> 02:03:47,760 opening up that package yeah well they 2782 02:03:50,210 --> 02:03:49,020 were actually quite excited about it 2783 02:03:52,580 --> 02:03:50,220 especially in the description of the 2784 02:03:55,850 --> 02:03:52,590 circumstances unfortunately all they got 2785 02:03:57,950 --> 02:03:55,860 from it was dog DNA and what we figure 2786 02:04:01,700 --> 02:03:57,960 had happened was one of the residents 2787 02:04:03,950 --> 02:04:01,710 dog had taken an interest in it and as 2788 02:04:05,540 --> 02:04:03,960 you might expect lifted his leg and 2789 02:04:09,110 --> 02:04:05,550 marked his territory 2790 02:04:11,900 --> 02:04:09,120 you know this intruder had the audacity 2791 02:04:14,180 --> 02:04:11,910 to leave a scat pile in his in his 2792 02:04:16,670 --> 02:04:14,190 backyard he was going to mark it and so 2793 02:04:20,480 --> 02:04:16,680 yeah it was DNA you know proteins from 2794 02:04:23,150 --> 02:04:20,490 the urine that had you know which is not 2795 02:04:25,050 --> 02:04:23,160 good trying to isolate DNA from an 2796 02:04:26,970 --> 02:04:25,060 unknown primate 2797 02:04:30,150 --> 02:04:26,980 often times when when I would go out on 2798 02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:30,160 cattle mutilation investigations we 2799 02:04:34,650 --> 02:04:32,650 would allow the Pyrenees my brothers 2800 02:04:36,990 --> 02:04:34,660 Pyrenees to be the first one to actually 2801 02:04:40,050 --> 02:04:37,000 go into the site because he would do 2802 02:04:43,020 --> 02:04:40,060 exactly that he would go around to in an 2803 02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:43,030 ID where any sort of coyotes had 2804 02:04:50,400 --> 02:04:45,610 approached the carcass by peeing on the 2805 02:04:52,140 --> 02:04:50,410 bushes that they peed on so he was our 2806 02:04:55,620 --> 02:04:52,150 junior investigator the first one on the 2807 02:04:57,060 --> 02:04:55,630 scene usually yeah they only had only 2808 02:04:59,640 --> 02:04:57,070 had I don't know if I would want to have 2809 02:05:02,940 --> 02:04:59,650 their sense of smell I know it could be 2810 02:05:04,530 --> 02:05:02,950 more of a burden yeah almost parts per 2811 02:05:06,480 --> 02:05:04,540 trillion I think I think the bloodhounds 2812 02:05:09,660 --> 02:05:06,490 can smell parts per trillion in bears 2813 02:05:12,930 --> 02:05:09,670 can two bears can smell up to five miles 2814 02:05:14,790 --> 02:05:12,940 away I think downwind hears you know we 2815 02:05:17,160 --> 02:05:14,800 have to get into this question there's a 2816 02:05:20,040 --> 02:05:17,170 couple of questions about the problem of 2817 02:05:23,700 --> 02:05:20,050 hoaxing and vespi hi folks want Stu know 2818 02:05:25,530 --> 02:05:23,710 how badly hoax is like Rick Dyer and and 2819 02:05:27,240 --> 02:05:25,540 others have harmed serious Bigfoot 2820 02:05:29,640 --> 02:05:27,250 research do you think that these guys 2821 02:05:31,350 --> 02:05:29,650 are just a just an annoyance that 2822 02:05:32,310 --> 02:05:31,360 they're just an irritation or do you 2823 02:05:34,410 --> 02:05:32,320 think that they're doing the irreparable 2824 02:05:36,690 --> 02:05:34,420 harm to this subject being taken 2825 02:05:38,910 --> 02:05:36,700 seriously by academics well that's a 2826 02:05:41,250 --> 02:05:38,920 good question and it's I don't know that 2827 02:05:43,380 --> 02:05:41,260 I have a clean-cut answer I don't think 2828 02:05:45,810 --> 02:05:43,390 it's irreparable harm in the case of 2829 02:05:49,890 --> 02:05:45,820 something like Rick Dyer I think that it 2830 02:05:53,390 --> 02:05:49,900 it what it does is it gives more grist 2831 02:05:56,490 --> 02:05:53,400 for the mill being run by the 2832 02:05:59,370 --> 02:05:56,500 ideological skeptics out there yeah they 2833 02:06:01,320 --> 02:05:59,380 like to then focus everyone's attention 2834 02:06:03,500 --> 02:06:01,330 on those things I mean in the case of 2835 02:06:06,570 --> 02:06:03,510 Rick Dyer it's so blatantly 2836 02:06:09,810 --> 02:06:06,580 transparently obvious though the only 2837 02:06:11,880 --> 02:06:09,820 the most gullible or the most wishful 2838 02:06:14,130 --> 02:06:11,890 individuals would would even give him 2839 02:06:16,170 --> 02:06:14,140 the time of day well I could share some 2840 02:06:18,540 --> 02:06:16,180 fun stories of behind-the-scenes stories 2841 02:06:21,120 --> 02:06:18,550 of his wrangling trying to get me to 2842 02:06:22,970 --> 02:06:21,130 come and just think of us just the 2843 02:06:28,140 --> 02:06:22,980 length credibility you know to his 2844 02:06:30,630 --> 02:06:28,150 allegations but it was he did his 2845 02:06:33,210 --> 02:06:30,640 roadshow he wanted to get a place up in 2846 02:06:34,470 --> 02:06:33,220 Flagstaff and and do his dog and pony 2847 02:06:36,450 --> 02:06:34,480 show up there and they absolutely 2848 02:06:38,300 --> 02:06:36,460 refused I was hoping that they allowed 2849 02:06:40,070 --> 02:06:38,310 him to do it because I wanted to go 2850 02:06:41,510 --> 02:06:40,080 there and do a real big expose on him 2851 02:06:43,130 --> 02:06:41,520 but yeah they wouldn't even allow them 2852 02:06:45,410 --> 02:06:43,140 to stop they say don't even stopping 2853 02:06:46,910 --> 02:06:45,420 this down and just keep going pal that's 2854 02:06:49,580 --> 02:06:46,920 probably for the best 2855 02:06:50,990 --> 02:06:49,590 how about the Minnesota Iceman this is 2856 02:06:55,160 --> 02:06:51,000 something that I have always been 2857 02:06:58,580 --> 02:06:55,170 absolutely just fascinated by of course 2858 02:07:02,000 --> 02:06:58,590 Ivan Sanderson got a chance to take a 2859 02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:02,010 look at this short-lived display of an 2860 02:07:08,000 --> 02:07:05,370 apparent hominid in a smaller hominid 2861 02:07:11,060 --> 02:07:08,010 but all fully hair covered the inner 2862 02:07:13,310 --> 02:07:11,070 block of ice yeah well just recently the 2863 02:07:15,560 --> 02:07:13,320 volume that Bernard hugglemas had 2864 02:07:17,630 --> 02:07:15,570 written on that has been translated from 2865 02:07:19,970 --> 02:07:17,640 French into English and has been 2866 02:07:22,250 --> 02:07:19,980 published and it's now out and available 2867 02:07:24,950 --> 02:07:22,260 we could just did a I just wrote a book 2868 02:07:27,830 --> 02:07:24,960 review on it for the Journal of 2869 02:07:30,410 --> 02:07:27,840 scientific exploration the JSE it 2870 02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:30,420 fascinating it sort of reopened that 2871 02:07:35,890 --> 02:07:33,690 that case for me as I read this book for 2872 02:07:39,710 --> 02:07:35,900 the first time and got Bernards 2873 02:07:41,600 --> 02:07:39,720 perspective in contrast to Ivan's Ivan 2874 02:07:44,170 --> 02:07:41,610 was probably a little more skeptical and 2875 02:07:47,090 --> 02:07:44,180 thought that Bernhard had jumped the gun 2876 02:07:50,990 --> 02:07:47,100 but you know it really was a shell game 2877 02:07:53,180 --> 02:07:51,000 it was it was from as soon as some 2878 02:07:56,870 --> 02:07:53,190 serious attention was directed by the 2879 02:08:00,170 --> 02:07:56,880 FBI and the Smithsonian then suddenly 2880 02:08:02,660 --> 02:08:00,180 Hanson claimed that the owner the 2881 02:08:05,420 --> 02:08:02,670 anonymous owner had retracted it and had 2882 02:08:06,890 --> 02:08:05,430 replaced it with this mannequin the 2883 02:08:10,160 --> 02:08:06,900 mannequin which is now down at the 2884 02:08:15,020 --> 02:08:10,170 Museum of the weird I guess in in visit 2885 02:08:17,150 --> 02:08:15,030 Arizona or Nevada Arizona Arizona and so 2886 02:08:20,870 --> 02:08:17,160 the question is was the original that 2887 02:08:23,960 --> 02:08:20,880 was examined in at length by Sanderson 2888 02:08:26,900 --> 02:08:23,970 and hyoomans was that just was that a 2889 02:08:30,470 --> 02:08:26,910 real body of flesh and bones body or was 2890 02:08:32,780 --> 02:08:30,480 it the model which Hanson then thought 2891 02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:32,790 out repositioned the little modified 2892 02:08:36,980 --> 02:08:34,610 perhaps a bit and then refroze 2893 02:08:39,950 --> 02:08:36,990 unfortunately I don't think we'll ever 2894 02:08:41,240 --> 02:08:39,960 know and and even if if we you know even 2895 02:08:43,870 --> 02:08:41,250 if a compelling argument could be made 2896 02:08:48,680 --> 02:08:43,880 one way or the other the only physical 2897 02:08:50,930 --> 02:08:48,690 remains we have are or is that model 2898 02:08:52,130 --> 02:08:50,940 that's on display down there and 2899 02:08:54,320 --> 02:08:52,140 certainly that is 2900 02:08:55,730 --> 02:08:54,330 just it's a mannequin it's not much 2901 02:08:57,080 --> 02:08:55,740 different than well it's it's better 2902 02:09:01,790 --> 02:08:57,090 quality much better quality 2903 02:09:05,180 --> 02:09:01,800 Rick tires travesty but it's whenever 2904 02:09:06,020 --> 02:09:05,190 you're being kind yeah yeah we'll just 2905 02:09:07,910 --> 02:09:06,030 never know 2906 02:09:11,060 --> 02:09:07,920 yeah it's always fascinated me 2907 02:09:14,180 --> 02:09:11,070 especially the diagram that Sanderson 2908 02:09:17,690 --> 02:09:14,190 drew up and and very meticulously - I 2909 02:09:19,760 --> 02:09:17,700 might add for summin summin just looking 2910 02:09:21,890 --> 02:09:19,770 through glass and being able to to 2911 02:09:24,440 --> 02:09:21,900 determine as much as he did it was very 2912 02:09:25,970 --> 02:09:24,450 very intriguing you just have to wonder 2913 02:09:29,320 --> 02:09:25,980 maybe that thing sitting on ice 2914 02:09:33,230 --> 02:09:29,330 somewhere just waiting for somebody to 2915 02:09:34,460 --> 02:09:33,240 find it and bring it out or imagine but 2916 02:09:37,820 --> 02:09:34,470 it's you know stranger things have 2917 02:09:39,830 --> 02:09:37,830 happened that so yeah it's fascinating 2918 02:09:43,310 --> 02:09:39,840 but it's you know there are so many 2919 02:09:45,530 --> 02:09:43,320 fronts so many lines of investigation 2920 02:09:49,130 --> 02:09:45,540 that I'm involved with and one to one 2921 02:09:53,390 --> 02:09:49,140 degree or another that it just it you 2922 02:09:56,240 --> 02:09:53,400 know it doesn't justify the time to 2923 02:10:01,210 --> 02:09:56,250 delve into it any further well maybe one 2924 02:10:06,860 --> 02:10:04,040 weekend you know the enthusiasts out 2925 02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:06,870 there this is this is tailor-made for 2926 02:10:11,570 --> 02:10:08,970 for somebody to just take a hold and 2927 02:10:13,490 --> 02:10:11,580 chase down all those leads and you know 2928 02:10:14,840 --> 02:10:13,500 talk to Terry : I got a phone call from 2929 02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:14,850 Terry : 2930 02:10:19,430 --> 02:10:17,010 many many years ago when he and he 2931 02:10:21,050 --> 02:10:19,440 described his first experience he was 2932 02:10:22,790 --> 02:10:21,060 the individual who examined it and then 2933 02:10:25,340 --> 02:10:22,800 brought it to the attention of Sanderson 2934 02:10:27,470 --> 02:10:25,350 let's do that further in our next 2935 02:10:29,360 --> 02:10:27,480 segment we've got more to come with dr. 2936 02:10:39,080 --> 02:10:29,370 Jeffrey Meldrum and Jean and Kris you're 2937 02:10:46,700 --> 02:10:42,990 thank you for listening to GCN 2938 02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:46,710 be sure to visit GCN live.com today 2939 02:10:50,940 --> 02:10:49,210 there is an affordable alternative to 2940 02:10:52,680 --> 02:10:50,950 the high cost of health care that offers 2941 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02:11:57,040 buy a new one no I caught geeks on site 2969 02:12:00,330 --> 02:11:58,570 they made an appointment to visit my 2970 02:12:01,800 --> 02:12:00,340 home and showed up the same day you mean 2971 02:12:03,720 --> 02:12:01,810 they didn't ask you to bring your 2972 02:12:05,280 --> 02:12:03,730 computer to a shop that's what happened 2973 02:12:06,750 --> 02:12:05,290 what I call a support company geeks 2974 02:12:09,150 --> 02:12:06,760 on-site can go to your home or business 2975 02:12:11,490 --> 02:12:09,160 or even repair your computer online they 2976 02:12:13,560 --> 02:12:11,500 have 24/7 emergency service if you were 2977 02:12:15,420 --> 02:12:13,570 having problems with your PC or Mac call 2978 02:12:17,820 --> 02:12:15,430 geeks on site one eight hundred five 2979 02:12:19,830 --> 02:12:17,830 nine one one six eight two our friendly 2980 02:12:22,140 --> 02:12:19,840 certified computer repair experts are 2981 02:12:24,240 --> 02:12:22,150 available 24/7 call now for 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the 2996 02:12:55,560 --> 02:12:54,040 credit card companies trick you into 2997 02:12:56,130 --> 02:12:55,570 thinking that you have to pay it all 2998 02:12:58,350 --> 02:12:56,140 back 2999 02:13:00,210 --> 02:12:58,360 because you don't what the credit card 3000 02:13:02,160 --> 02:13:00,220 companies don't want you to know is that 3001 02:13:04,260 --> 02:13:02,170 there's actually a way to get debt free 3002 02:13:06,930 --> 02:13:04,270 without paying off your entire debt or 3003 02:13:08,820 --> 02:13:06,940 going bankrupt if you have $5,000 or 3004 02:13:10,290 --> 02:13:08,830 more in credit card debt you now have 3005 02:13:12,270 --> 02:13:10,300 the right to settle that debt for a 3006 02:13:14,430 --> 02:13:12,280 fraction of what you owe for free 3007 02:13:16,320 --> 02:13:14,440 information call credit associates now 3008 02:13:18,360 --> 02:13:16,330 one eight hundred nine five nine five 3009 02:13:20,220 --> 02:13:18,370 seven fifty nine will even show you how 3010 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and your family enjoy the outdoors 3025 02:14:28,250 --> 02:14:26,730 inside call now to hear more about these 3026 02:14:36,800 --> 02:14:28,260 great offers from the premier 3027 02:14:40,790 --> 02:14:36,810 manufacturer of sunroom since 1975 to 3028 02:14:43,600 --> 02:14:40,800 find out more call toll free 884 863 33 3029 02:14:53,490 --> 02:14:43,610 that's 884 863 33 3030 02:14:59,800 --> 02:14:56,380 today this is Marie D Jones the author 3031 02:15:02,530 --> 02:14:59,810 of this book is from the future and you 3032 02:15:07,910 --> 02:15:02,540 are listening to the podcast the gold 3033 02:15:07,920 --> 02:15:12,310 [Music] 3034 02:15:17,410 --> 02:15:14,020 I said Jeff you were saying that this 3035 02:15:20,890 --> 02:15:17,420 was brought to Ivan Sanderson no Ivan 3036 02:15:22,899 --> 02:15:20,900 Sanderson died one in the 70s or 80s boy 3037 02:15:26,080 --> 02:15:22,909 yeah thank you I don't know the exact 3038 02:15:28,240 --> 02:15:26,090 date yeah yeah sure and who homeless 3039 02:15:29,709 --> 02:15:28,250 white woman's more recently but yeah 3040 02:15:32,100 --> 02:15:29,719 teri : had brought it to their attention 3041 02:15:34,540 --> 02:15:32,110 they brought a content he had been 3042 02:15:37,689 --> 02:15:34,550 correspondent frequently with Sanderson 3043 02:15:41,050 --> 02:15:37,699 and and oilman's was happened to be 3044 02:15:43,569 --> 02:15:41,060 there visiting when Ivan got this report 3045 02:15:45,750 --> 02:15:43,579 and so they went and investigated it 3046 02:15:49,089 --> 02:15:45,760 together but yeah it's an interesting 3047 02:15:51,609 --> 02:15:49,099 interesting description in case but I I 3048 02:15:53,800 --> 02:15:51,619 could see it going either way oilmen 3049 02:15:56,490 --> 02:15:53,810 does a really good job too of kind of 3050 02:15:58,750 --> 02:15:56,500 threading his way through the various 3051 02:16:00,280 --> 02:15:58,760 potential explanations and he was a 3052 02:16:04,720 --> 02:16:00,290 strong advocate for this kind of 3053 02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:04,730 cloak-and-dagger scenario where the body 3054 02:16:13,780 --> 02:16:08,530 was collected in Southeast Asia by a 3055 02:16:17,979 --> 02:16:13,790 Vietnam GI who then secretin it back to 3056 02:16:20,310 --> 02:16:17,989 the states on a military transport in a 3057 02:16:23,410 --> 02:16:20,320 coffin or in other baggage or whatever 3058 02:16:25,899 --> 02:16:23,420 this was a means by which you know drugs 3059 02:16:27,790 --> 02:16:25,909 were presumably brought back to the 3060 02:16:31,290 --> 02:16:27,800 States on a regular basis and so there 3061 02:16:34,509 --> 02:16:31,300 was a vehicle a mechanism by which 3062 02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:34,519 another form of contraband could get 3063 02:16:41,469 --> 02:16:39,050 past customs and and other obstacles you 3064 02:16:44,620 --> 02:16:41,479 know I never liked that is it beyond 3065 02:16:48,849 --> 02:16:44,630 conception but it always just amazed me 3066 02:16:50,889 --> 02:16:48,859 why someone would think that the best 3067 02:16:52,599 --> 02:16:50,899 way to exploit if they were out to 3068 02:16:55,360 --> 02:16:52,609 exploit rather than to further the 3069 02:16:58,450 --> 02:16:55,370 science that the best way to exploit was 3070 02:17:04,030 --> 02:16:58,460 to put something like that out for you 3071 02:17:05,799 --> 02:17:04,040 know for us peekaboo for two bits you 3072 02:17:09,580 --> 02:17:05,809 know but I guess that was a fairly 3073 02:17:12,400 --> 02:17:09,590 lucrative means back in at that day I 3074 02:17:14,259 --> 02:17:12,410 guess we lose track of what you can what 3075 02:17:16,270 --> 02:17:14,269 you can buy with 25 cents you know when 3076 02:17:19,599 --> 02:17:16,280 I tell my kids I used to buy candy bar 3077 02:17:23,530 --> 02:17:19,609 for a nickel they can bully yeah he came 3078 02:17:25,299 --> 02:17:23,540 by the wrapper for that now fright I was 3079 02:17:27,729 --> 02:17:25,309 hot on the heels of 3080 02:17:32,019 --> 02:17:27,739 America's first serial killers in 18 the 3081 02:17:35,709 --> 02:17:32,029 1860s the Espinoza brothers him and his 3082 02:17:38,830 --> 02:17:35,719 uncle and a cousin bushwhacked at least 3083 02:17:41,469 --> 02:17:38,840 40 Cowboys in Colorado someone that's 3084 02:17:43,450 --> 02:17:41,479 not very well-known to most people and 3085 02:17:45,250 --> 02:17:43,460 this was over a six-month period the 3086 02:17:47,889 --> 02:17:45,260 famous mountain man Tom Tobin was sent 3087 02:17:49,809 --> 02:17:47,899 to collect the heads to take him out and 3088 02:17:53,589 --> 02:17:49,819 collect the head so he could get a $500 3089 02:17:56,109 --> 02:17:53,599 reward from Gilpin William Gilpin who 3090 02:17:57,490 --> 02:17:56,119 was the territorial governor and so he 3091 02:17:59,049 --> 02:17:57,500 got him he found him he cut their heads 3092 02:18:00,399 --> 02:17:59,059 off but he got caught in a flash flood 3093 02:18:02,410 --> 02:18:00,409 and the where for know River and lost 3094 02:18:03,910 --> 02:18:02,420 two of the heads oh but he was able to 3095 02:18:06,309 --> 02:18:03,920 make it back to Denver from southern 3096 02:18:08,410 --> 02:18:06,319 Colorado with one head he plunked it 3097 02:18:10,569 --> 02:18:08,420 down on the desk and and was told that 3098 02:18:12,609 --> 02:18:10,579 there wasn't $500 in the Treasury to 3099 02:18:14,469 --> 02:18:12,619 give him to get him his reward 3100 02:18:17,139 --> 02:18:14,479 but Gilpin bottomed a suit and took him 3101 02:18:19,450 --> 02:18:17,149 out to dinner and so Tobin evidently 3102 02:18:23,080 --> 02:18:19,460 sold the head to a sideshow and for 3103 02:18:28,059 --> 02:18:23,090 years many years it was displayed in a 3104 02:18:30,819 --> 02:18:28,069 pickle jar the ghost the head of the 3105 02:18:34,660 --> 02:18:30,829 notorious not forget his first name but 3106 02:18:36,729 --> 02:18:34,670 it was the Nestor Espinoza and no you 3107 02:18:39,189 --> 02:18:36,739 know I tried to find out where I tracked 3108 02:18:40,569 --> 02:18:39,199 it for a ways but you know these things 3109 02:18:42,490 --> 02:18:40,579 have a way of collecting a lot of 3110 02:18:46,509 --> 02:18:42,500 quarters and then disappearing into the 3111 02:18:48,089 --> 02:18:46,519 dustbin it's probably the same thing 3112 02:18:50,259 --> 02:18:48,099 happened when the Minnesota Iceman 3113 02:18:53,080 --> 02:18:50,269 probably ended up you know getting 3114 02:18:56,859 --> 02:18:53,090 tossed into a landfill or something very 3115 02:18:58,030 --> 02:18:56,869 well well here's another couple of 3116 02:19:00,549 --> 02:18:58,040 questions we're kind of running out of 3117 02:19:03,969 --> 02:19:00,559 time but you know there's been a lot now 3118 02:19:06,000 --> 02:19:03,979 made over the years since David Pilates 3119 02:19:10,240 --> 02:19:06,010 has come out with his missing 411 books 3120 02:19:11,500 --> 02:19:10,250 which detail the many hundreds even 3121 02:19:13,599 --> 02:19:11,510 thousands of people that have 3122 02:19:16,569 --> 02:19:13,609 inexplicably disappeared within national 3123 02:19:19,959 --> 02:19:16,579 parks you know there's always that kind 3124 02:19:21,879 --> 02:19:19,969 of hint in the the narrative that these 3125 02:19:23,679 --> 02:19:21,889 people were taken by something and of 3126 02:19:25,979 --> 02:19:23,689 course the automatic knee-jerk 3127 02:19:28,149 --> 02:19:25,989 assumption is that the Bigfoot is 3128 02:19:30,399 --> 02:19:28,159 abducting people for some reason or 3129 02:19:32,679 --> 02:19:30,409 another or killing them or whatever how 3130 02:19:34,479 --> 02:19:32,689 does that strike you and and what do you 3131 02:19:36,839 --> 02:19:34,489 make of all these disappearances 3132 02:19:38,070 --> 02:19:36,849 some very inexplicable were the 3133 02:19:39,660 --> 02:19:38,080 bodies are found where people have 3134 02:19:42,179 --> 02:19:39,670 crisscross the area if you know many 3135 02:19:46,530 --> 02:19:42,189 many times piles of carefully cold 3136 02:19:49,559 --> 02:19:46,540 folded clothing or found some pretty 3137 02:19:51,300 --> 02:19:49,569 strange circumstantial evidence around a 3138 02:19:52,830 --> 02:19:51,310 lot of these cases well do you think 3139 02:19:55,290 --> 02:19:52,840 there's any connection between Bigfoot 3140 02:19:57,420 --> 02:19:55,300 and all these many disappearances I 3141 02:20:00,269 --> 02:19:57,430 don't know if they could all be 3142 02:20:03,479 --> 02:20:00,279 attributed to Bigfoot in a uniform 3143 02:20:06,990 --> 02:20:03,489 fashion I know that's yeah I think it's 3144 02:20:09,149 --> 02:20:07,000 very possible that some disappearances 3145 02:20:11,880 --> 02:20:09,159 could be attributed there I mean I've 3146 02:20:14,099 --> 02:20:11,890 dealt with a couple of instances where 3147 02:20:15,689 --> 02:20:14,109 there was some good circumstantial 3148 02:20:20,490 --> 02:20:15,699 evidence and even some eyewitness 3149 02:20:23,490 --> 02:20:20,500 evidence that pointed to an unsolved 3150 02:20:27,389 --> 02:20:23,500 disappearance being attributable to 3151 02:20:29,389 --> 02:20:27,399 Sasquatch activity you know I when you 3152 02:20:30,540 --> 02:20:29,399 look at some of the Native American 3153 02:20:34,410 --> 02:20:30,550 tribbles 3154 02:20:38,120 --> 02:20:34,420 some has a King Kong narrative are the 3155 02:20:41,700 --> 02:20:38,130 King Kong narrative up in the north was 3156 02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:41,710 they give the you know a bus they'd 3157 02:20:47,070 --> 02:20:45,010 actually present the Bigfoot with a fair 3158 02:20:48,899 --> 02:20:47,080 maiden that's right and there are 3159 02:20:51,330 --> 02:20:48,909 accounts a couple of credible accounts 3160 02:20:52,139 --> 02:20:51,340 one one in particular that I'm familiar 3161 02:20:57,899 --> 02:20:52,149 with 3162 02:20:59,729 --> 02:20:57,909 fairly closely that of a native a tribal 3163 02:21:03,210 --> 02:20:59,739 woman being abducted young women being 3164 02:21:07,620 --> 02:21:03,220 abducted and coming back you know a year 3165 02:21:10,349 --> 02:21:07,630 later pregnant and giving birth to a in 3166 02:21:14,880 --> 02:21:10,359 this instance giving birth to an infant 3167 02:21:17,639 --> 02:21:14,890 that was sickly gangly much hairier than 3168 02:21:21,450 --> 02:21:17,649 typical never able to learn to speak and 3169 02:21:23,700 --> 02:21:21,460 died at a young age of its ills wow I've 3170 02:21:26,240 --> 02:21:23,710 never heard about that one yeah and and 3171 02:21:29,189 --> 02:21:26,250 that one was confirmed independently by 3172 02:21:30,780 --> 02:21:29,199 another individual that you know we had 3173 02:21:33,240 --> 02:21:30,790 we had both ends of the story the woman 3174 02:21:36,469 --> 02:21:33,250 had gone off in into seclusion was sent 3175 02:21:39,059 --> 02:21:36,479 to live with relatives out of state and 3176 02:21:42,330 --> 02:21:39,069 when we were doing the documentary shoot 3177 02:21:43,820 --> 02:21:42,340 in that state this one guy comes up and 3178 02:21:46,050 --> 02:21:43,830 as we're talking he tells the story 3179 02:21:49,109 --> 02:21:46,060 about this woman who came down from 3180 02:21:50,610 --> 02:21:49,119 Wyoming and gave and reportedly gave 3181 02:21:53,670 --> 02:21:50,620 birth to this you know 3182 02:21:55,410 --> 02:21:53,680 mongrel child that was sick and and died 3183 02:21:59,011 --> 02:21:55,420 when it was about eight years old and it 3184 02:22:01,341 --> 02:21:59,021 was buried up there on the hill and it 3185 02:22:03,900 --> 02:22:01,351 was uncanny because it was absolutely 3186 02:22:06,660 --> 02:22:03,910 confirmed that it was the same same 3187 02:22:08,130 --> 02:22:06,670 circumstance same time same individual 3188 02:22:11,820 --> 02:22:08,140 he even knew the names of the person 3189 02:22:15,020 --> 02:22:11,830 involved and and so it was interesting 3190 02:22:17,490 --> 02:22:15,030 so there's that possibility that if true 3191 02:22:18,810 --> 02:22:17,500 speaks a lot about you know this 3192 02:22:20,880 --> 02:22:18,820 question we were talking about earlier 3193 02:22:23,341 --> 02:22:20,890 about the relatedness of Sasquatch to 3194 02:22:25,290 --> 02:22:23,351 humans right the ability to hybridize 3195 02:22:28,950 --> 02:22:25,300 even if it doesn't produce a viable 3196 02:22:33,060 --> 02:22:28,960 offspring that that is you know healthy 3197 02:22:37,710 --> 02:22:33,070 and vibrant but you know David is very 3198 02:22:39,450 --> 02:22:37,720 careful and makes the make stresses the 3199 02:22:42,780 --> 02:22:39,460 point that nowhere in his book does he 3200 02:22:49,230 --> 02:22:42,790 attribute these occurrences to Bigfoot 3201 02:22:50,761 --> 02:22:49,240 to any other factor he simply is yeah 3202 02:22:52,740 --> 02:22:50,771 he's stating the facts to the best of 3203 02:22:55,380 --> 02:22:52,750 his ability right there is no evidence 3204 02:22:58,380 --> 02:22:55,390 to suggest that that is an answer for 3205 02:23:01,110 --> 02:22:58,390 some or even any of the disappearances 3206 02:23:04,261 --> 02:23:01,120 right but you know the one of the names 3207 02:23:08,520 --> 02:23:04,271 for the Sasquatch in this region is so 3208 02:23:12,360 --> 02:23:08,530 Ibiza which is that or so avec which is 3209 02:23:14,551 --> 02:23:12,370 the eater of children and we know what 3210 02:23:18,530 --> 02:23:14,561 seemed to be just so stories about 3211 02:23:21,060 --> 02:23:18,540 snatching and and carrying off infants 3212 02:23:24,330 --> 02:23:21,070 took on a whole new dimension for me 3213 02:23:27,091 --> 02:23:24,340 when a colleague who had worked in the 3214 02:23:30,540 --> 02:23:27,101 Peace Corps in Africa got a job as a 3215 02:23:33,540 --> 02:23:30,550 ranger in a park and told me that during 3216 02:23:35,820 --> 02:23:33,550 his stint there they had an incident 3217 02:23:39,511 --> 02:23:35,830 that was kind of hushed up in which a 3218 02:23:41,430 --> 02:23:39,521 field workers child that was bundled up 3219 02:23:43,551 --> 02:23:41,440 down under a bush parked under a bush 3220 02:23:47,310 --> 02:23:43,561 while she was a few yards away 3221 02:23:50,670 --> 02:23:47,320 tilling was snatched by a passing 3222 02:23:52,950 --> 02:23:50,680 chimpanzee and before the field workers 3223 02:23:55,950 --> 02:23:52,960 could chase it down and you know and 3224 02:23:57,750 --> 02:23:55,960 retrieve it it had been dispatched and 3225 02:24:01,350 --> 02:23:57,760 partially consumed by this chimp 3226 02:24:03,970 --> 02:24:01,360 well then shortly thereafter in a much 3227 02:24:07,570 --> 02:24:03,980 more public fashion word got out 3228 02:24:09,131 --> 02:24:07,580 that in that area of Uganda it where 3229 02:24:12,070 --> 02:24:09,141 they were experiencing severe drought 3230 02:24:14,100 --> 02:24:12,080 conditions there was a rash of such 3231 02:24:17,341 --> 02:24:14,110 abductions and over a seven month period 3232 02:24:22,030 --> 02:24:17,351 12 individual in infants or toddlers 3233 02:24:23,621 --> 02:24:22,040 were snatched by chimpanzees I'll tell 3234 02:24:25,331 --> 02:24:23,631 you what I don't want to be in that area 3235 02:24:28,690 --> 02:24:25,341 we've got one-year segments to spend 3236 02:24:38,711 --> 02:24:28,700 with dr. Jeffrey Meldrum I'm gene he's 3237 02:24:42,600 --> 02:24:38,721 Chris you're in the para cast thank you 3238 02:24:49,890 --> 02:24:48,030 visit GP and live.com today we also have 3239 02:24:53,430 --> 02:24:49,900 swag you know we have all these 3240 02:24:53,970 --> 02:24:53,440 exclusive para cast things that you can 3241 02:24:55,920 --> 02:24:53,980 buy 3242 02:24:58,710 --> 02:24:55,930 we've got like I guess 60 or so 3243 02:25:02,340 --> 02:24:58,720 different items and entails t-shirts 3244 02:25:05,640 --> 02:25:02,350 sleeves for notebook computers iPad 3245 02:25:07,980 --> 02:25:05,650 cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo 3246 02:25:09,780 --> 02:25:07,990 tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and 3247 02:25:13,020 --> 02:25:09,790 jackets and stuff like that for men and 3248 02:25:15,600 --> 02:25:13,030 women we have a para cast aluminum water 3249 02:25:19,440 --> 02:25:15,610 bottle all the stuff you go to store dot 3250 02:25:22,350 --> 02:25:19,450 ^ cast comm store dot 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3306 02:27:25,559 --> 02:27:22,689 Robin I'm 47 years of age I absolutely 3307 02:27:27,870 --> 02:27:25,569 love one world way it was about five 3308 02:27:30,149 --> 02:27:27,880 years ago when a trainer told me it was 3309 02:27:32,460 --> 02:27:30,159 the end-all of protein powder one day 3310 02:27:35,010 --> 02:27:32,470 when I ran out I decided to try other 3311 02:27:37,080 --> 02:27:35,020 brand I spent eight months and could not 3312 02:27:39,510 --> 02:27:37,090 find a replacement I went through tons 3313 02:27:42,000 --> 02:27:39,520 of brands height and flavors and almost 3314 02:27:44,460 --> 02:27:42,010 all of them tasted unnatural and not 3315 02:27:47,189 --> 02:27:44,470 pleasant when it all boiled down I came 3316 02:27:49,620 --> 02:27:47,199 right back to one world way I buy the 3317 02:27:52,319 --> 02:27:49,630 coffee fact of five pound container and 3318 02:27:54,870 --> 02:27:52,329 my family crave their one world way to I 3319 02:27:57,359 --> 02:27:54,880 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the gold standard of paranormal 3348 02:29:08,280 --> 02:29:00,700 radio 3349 02:29:11,560 --> 02:29:08,290 [Music] 3350 02:29:13,900 --> 02:29:11,570 there I say it it's been just touched at 3351 02:29:17,650 --> 02:29:13,910 the periphery so some people want to 3352 02:29:20,381 --> 02:29:17,660 attribute a paranormal explanation to 3353 02:29:22,480 --> 02:29:20,391 Bigfoot sasquatch whatever that they 3354 02:29:25,060 --> 02:29:22,490 appear in window areas that tend to 3355 02:29:26,170 --> 02:29:25,070 attract paranormal activity but 3356 02:29:29,290 --> 02:29:26,180 everything you're talking about is just 3357 02:29:31,900 --> 02:29:29,300 a physical presence everything you know 3358 02:29:33,820 --> 02:29:31,910 the behaviors even this this issue now 3359 02:29:35,710 --> 02:29:33,830 see of child snatching can be 3360 02:29:39,850 --> 02:29:35,720 accommodated within the natural behavior 3361 02:29:42,070 --> 02:29:39,860 of great apes there was an instance one 3362 02:29:43,900 --> 02:29:42,080 of my contacts on the reservation told 3363 02:29:46,060 --> 02:29:43,910 the story that he was familiar with from 3364 02:29:48,100 --> 02:29:46,070 his grandparents growing up in Northern 3365 02:29:51,490 --> 02:29:48,110 Nevada where during a very harsh winter 3366 02:29:53,890 --> 02:29:51,500 a child was snatched by a sasquatch and 3367 02:29:56,860 --> 02:29:53,900 that was probably the the seed that 3368 02:29:59,591 --> 02:29:56,870 planted this notion and and gave rise to 3369 02:30:02,230 --> 02:29:59,601 this this name of snatcher but that's 3370 02:30:04,240 --> 02:30:02,240 ona qua the cannibal scientists of 3371 02:30:06,700 --> 02:30:04,250 British Columbia the the Pacific 3372 02:30:10,480 --> 02:30:06,710 Northwest that's what she's known for 3373 02:30:13,091 --> 02:30:10,490 right well yeah that Sonoco has these 3374 02:30:14,980 --> 02:30:13,101 big oversized hands depicted with big 3375 02:30:17,230 --> 02:30:14,990 oversized human-like hands which she 3376 02:30:19,210 --> 02:30:17,240 reportedly covers with pine pitch you 3377 02:30:21,040 --> 02:30:19,220 know like an NFL receiver so she can 3378 02:30:21,940 --> 02:30:21,050 catch the children and they won't slip 3379 02:30:23,860 --> 02:30:21,950 out of her hands 3380 02:30:25,091 --> 02:30:23,870 pitches him into a basket on her back 3381 02:30:26,950 --> 02:30:25,101 and takes him home to eat for dinner 3382 02:30:29,140 --> 02:30:26,960 that they usually escape because she's 3383 02:30:32,051 --> 02:30:29,150 rather dim-witted and she often falls 3384 02:30:33,490 --> 02:30:32,061 asleep and the kids can climb out or 3385 02:30:36,011 --> 02:30:33,500 pick their way out through the crude 3386 02:30:38,530 --> 02:30:36,021 basket but there are numerous things 3387 02:30:40,450 --> 02:30:38,540 like that where descriptions or 3388 02:30:43,060 --> 02:30:40,460 behaviors attributed sasquatch have 3389 02:30:45,280 --> 02:30:43,070 actually anticipated what we learn 3390 02:30:48,131 --> 02:30:45,290 eventually about the natural behaviors 3391 02:30:49,900 --> 02:30:48,141 of great apes or the fossil record of 3392 02:30:51,460 --> 02:30:49,910 hominid evolution you know those 3393 02:30:53,801 --> 02:30:51,470 examples are fascinating and how would 3394 02:30:56,170 --> 02:30:53,811 hoaxers come up with those things and be 3395 02:30:58,150 --> 02:30:56,180 so accurate in their depictions I mean 3396 02:31:00,400 --> 02:30:58,160 why would we have these stories that go 3397 02:31:02,290 --> 02:31:00,410 all the way back into prehistory that 3398 02:31:05,950 --> 02:31:02,300 filter down through the generations of 3399 02:31:07,960 --> 02:31:05,960 these wild men or in some instances a 3400 02:31:10,720 --> 02:31:07,970 race of shamans that decided to go back 3401 02:31:12,940 --> 02:31:10,730 to the wild many descriptions legendary 3402 02:31:15,551 --> 02:31:12,950 descriptions in the Native American lore 3403 02:31:18,551 --> 02:31:15,561 talk about humans that went back into a 3404 02:31:20,310 --> 02:31:18,561 feral State and occasionally hold the 3405 02:31:23,470 --> 02:31:20,320 tribe hostage and they have to 3406 02:31:26,200 --> 02:31:23,480 Maiden or for whatever reason probably 3407 02:31:28,390 --> 02:31:26,210 to help with the gene pool or something 3408 02:31:31,750 --> 02:31:28,400 but of course as I mentioned the Windigo 3409 02:31:33,400 --> 02:31:31,760 in the Ojibwe and Amish Nobby cultures 3410 02:31:35,530 --> 02:31:33,410 just above the border there in Canada 3411 02:31:37,870 --> 02:31:35,540 around the Great Lakes area the the 3412 02:31:40,240 --> 02:31:37,880 Windigo is the big hairy cannibal that 3413 02:31:43,211 --> 02:31:40,250 comes through and snatches a child and 3414 02:31:45,610 --> 02:31:43,221 races off it'd be quite unfortunate if I 3415 02:31:48,160 --> 02:31:45,620 was hiking along in Yosemite or Rainier 3416 02:31:50,051 --> 02:31:48,170 National Park or something and have one 3417 02:31:52,290 --> 02:31:50,061 of my parties snatched by a Bigfoot for 3418 02:31:55,750 --> 02:31:52,300 reasons unknown that would be a little 3419 02:31:57,910 --> 02:31:55,760 disconcerting well let's let's kind of 3420 02:32:00,790 --> 02:31:57,920 look forward now since we're running out 3421 02:32:03,671 --> 02:32:00,800 of time here where do you see this type 3422 02:32:06,280 --> 02:32:03,681 of research progressing what do we need 3423 02:32:09,970 --> 02:32:06,290 to think about to further this research 3424 02:32:13,570 --> 02:32:09,980 and how can we convince more scientists 3425 02:32:16,600 --> 02:32:13,580 that this is a very fruitful Avenue of 3426 02:32:19,030 --> 02:32:16,610 Investigation and research and and and 3427 02:32:21,850 --> 02:32:19,040 and to lose the stigma what can we do 3428 02:32:24,100 --> 02:32:21,860 well I think one is the recognition of 3429 02:32:26,530 --> 02:32:24,110 this shifting paradigm in anthropology 3430 02:32:28,830 --> 02:32:26,540 for example away from the single species 3431 02:32:32,230 --> 02:32:28,840 hypothesis to what we might call a 3432 02:32:34,360 --> 02:32:32,240 persistent multi species hypothesis that 3433 02:32:36,430 --> 02:32:34,370 we have contemporaneity of species 3434 02:32:39,881 --> 02:32:36,440 throughout history even into the present 3435 02:32:42,430 --> 02:32:39,891 and once a context once a construct 3436 02:32:46,841 --> 02:32:42,440 within the framework within this new 3437 02:32:48,220 --> 02:32:46,851 paradigm is Latino takes root then you 3438 02:32:49,780 --> 02:32:48,230 know my colleagues especially the 3439 02:32:53,680 --> 02:32:49,790 upcoming generation will be justified 3440 02:32:56,440 --> 02:32:53,690 and writing a paper or doing an analysis 3441 02:32:59,410 --> 02:32:56,450 of some of this evidence and I see that 3442 02:33:02,051 --> 02:32:59,420 coming you know are still very important 3443 02:33:04,631 --> 02:33:02,061 obviously is is the ultimate collection 3444 02:33:08,230 --> 02:33:04,641 of either a type specimen or short of 3445 02:33:09,850 --> 02:33:08,240 that a definitive DNA analysis that's 3446 02:33:12,250 --> 02:33:09,860 going to be challenging I really think 3447 02:33:15,730 --> 02:33:12,260 you know if this creature is somewhere 3448 02:33:17,830 --> 02:33:15,740 in that gap between us and chimpanzees 3449 02:33:20,110 --> 02:33:17,840 in our closest living relative 3450 02:33:23,051 --> 02:33:20,120 acknowledged living relative you know 3451 02:33:25,690 --> 02:33:23,061 that the gap between them and us is very 3452 02:33:28,600 --> 02:33:25,700 narrow just a few percentage points a 3453 02:33:30,430 --> 02:33:28,610 difference in DNA sometimes you have to 3454 02:33:32,591 --> 02:33:30,440 look hard to find those distinctions 3455 02:33:33,480 --> 02:33:32,601 between us and them and if you're just 3456 02:33:36,480 --> 02:33:33,490 doing 3457 02:33:40,680 --> 02:33:36,490 you know a cursory spa checkup at one 3458 02:33:42,930 --> 02:33:40,690 particular locus on a limited basis then 3459 02:33:46,500 --> 02:33:42,940 what are the chances that you might miss 3460 02:33:49,261 --> 02:33:46,510 that distinguishing trait that sets a 3461 02:33:51,230 --> 02:33:49,271 sasquatch apart from us now so I think 3462 02:33:54,211 --> 02:33:51,240 it's going to require a dedicated 3463 02:33:56,970 --> 02:33:54,221 researcher who's willing to invest the 3464 02:33:59,850 --> 02:33:56,980 time with with the proper funding but to 3465 02:34:02,790 --> 02:33:59,860 rep to dedicate that his or her time to 3466 02:34:04,650 --> 02:34:02,800 do this completely and thoroughly in 3467 02:34:05,730 --> 02:34:04,660 order to come to that conclusion you 3468 02:34:07,470 --> 02:34:05,740 know there is no precedent for 3469 02:34:10,350 --> 02:34:07,480 acknowledging a new species of the basis 3470 02:34:12,810 --> 02:34:10,360 of DNA a law we've traditionally always 3471 02:34:15,301 --> 02:34:12,820 required a physical specimen but there 3472 02:34:18,660 --> 02:34:15,311 is a growing literature now in which we 3473 02:34:22,410 --> 02:34:18,670 find discussions of the propriety of 3474 02:34:24,810 --> 02:34:22,420 that requirement in cases of endangered 3475 02:34:27,870 --> 02:34:24,820 or rare species can we in this day and 3476 02:34:30,511 --> 02:34:27,880 age now rely upon a voucher specimen of 3477 02:34:32,790 --> 02:34:30,521 DNA a tissue or you know a hair sample 3478 02:34:34,680 --> 02:34:32,800 to establish and recognize the new 3479 02:34:36,720 --> 02:34:34,690 species and perhaps Sasquatch will be 3480 02:34:39,270 --> 02:34:36,730 the best test case of that you know to 3481 02:34:42,060 --> 02:34:39,280 come along if we get to that point as 3482 02:34:44,131 --> 02:34:42,070 far as studying them you know even if 3483 02:34:48,410 --> 02:34:44,141 someone walked in with a hair strand or 3484 02:34:51,120 --> 02:34:48,420 a chunk of skin and blood that produced 3485 02:34:52,680 --> 02:34:51,130 definitive DNA that would just be the 3486 02:34:53,820 --> 02:34:52,690 beginning of the work we're going to 3487 02:34:56,070 --> 02:34:53,830 need to do to come to an understanding 3488 02:34:59,070 --> 02:34:56,080 of just what these things are what these 3489 02:35:01,020 --> 02:34:59,080 beings are and it won't become any 3490 02:35:03,180 --> 02:35:01,030 easier to collect that kind of data in 3491 02:35:05,160 --> 02:35:03,190 the field and so we're gonna have to use 3492 02:35:06,841 --> 02:35:05,170 techniques like I'm working with the 3493 02:35:10,711 --> 02:35:06,851 gentleman we've acquired a 20 foot 3494 02:35:13,310 --> 02:35:10,721 helium blimp right that is motor driven 3495 02:35:17,160 --> 02:35:13,320 rather than being a stationary you know 3496 02:35:19,290 --> 02:35:17,170 type of a surveillance device it's 3497 02:35:21,211 --> 02:35:19,300 equipped with the best of the best 3498 02:35:24,000 --> 02:35:21,221 thermal imaging cameras that our 3499 02:35:25,860 --> 02:35:24,010 tailored capacity will permit and we're 3500 02:35:29,910 --> 02:35:25,870 chomping at the bit to get out there 3501 02:35:32,850 --> 02:35:29,920 this next year next spring is using this 3502 02:35:34,171 --> 02:35:32,860 to do aerial surveys at night looking 3503 02:35:35,490 --> 02:35:34,181 for warm bodies but then of course 3504 02:35:37,591 --> 02:35:35,500 you're gonna have to get in there on 3505 02:35:39,870 --> 02:35:37,601 your feet boots on the ground to site 3506 02:35:41,341 --> 02:35:39,880 verify and you'll in the haystack but 3507 02:35:43,320 --> 02:35:41,351 boy it's a real bleep forward 3508 02:35:46,350 --> 02:35:43,330 well yeah compared to just tromping 3509 02:35:46,980 --> 02:35:46,360 around on foot or putting game cameras 3510 02:35:48,270 --> 02:35:46,990 out I think 3511 02:35:50,910 --> 02:35:48,280 it's a huge step forward it's a 3512 02:35:52,830 --> 02:35:50,920 necessary step forward in order to take 3513 02:35:54,570 --> 02:35:52,840 this search to the next level 3514 02:35:56,671 --> 02:35:54,580 yeah it's very proactive I like it I 3515 02:35:58,290 --> 02:35:56,681 love the design of the blimp - it's real 3516 02:36:00,421 --> 02:35:58,300 sexy looking well now this is a 3517 02:36:02,190 --> 02:36:00,431 different one okay you're thinking of 3518 02:36:04,770 --> 02:36:02,200 the Falcon project with that fabric 3519 02:36:06,330 --> 02:36:04,780 right that catamaran stuff unfortunately 3520 02:36:09,511 --> 02:36:06,340 the funding never came through for that 3521 02:36:12,480 --> 02:36:09,521 and so in working with another sponsor 3522 02:36:14,551 --> 02:36:12,490 another investigator with funding 3523 02:36:16,650 --> 02:36:14,561 directed towards this you know instead 3524 02:36:19,560 --> 02:36:16,660 of a two hundred and sixty thousand 3525 02:36:22,560 --> 02:36:19,570 dollar airship that mr. Barnes had 3526 02:36:25,290 --> 02:36:22,570 envisioned and his you know engineers 3527 02:36:27,450 --> 02:36:25,300 have designed where ours cost probably 3528 02:36:29,580 --> 02:36:27,460 about twenty thousand dollars another 3529 02:36:32,250 --> 02:36:29,590 ten thousand for the camera system 3530 02:36:34,560 --> 02:36:32,260 itself that's 1/10 the price yeah 3531 02:36:37,921 --> 02:36:34,570 exactly and so you know I can see a time 3532 02:36:41,131 --> 02:36:37,931 to where we double up you know this has 3533 02:36:42,720 --> 02:36:41,141 an air time of about a duration of about 3534 02:36:46,850 --> 02:36:42,730 two and a half to three and a half hours 3535 02:36:49,410 --> 02:36:46,860 and so you know if you have a contact 3536 02:36:52,200 --> 02:36:49,420 envision us eventually having sort of a 3537 02:36:54,301 --> 02:36:52,210 tag-team strategy where the second blimp 3538 02:36:56,131 --> 02:36:54,311 comes up and picks up the tracking while 3539 02:36:58,650 --> 02:36:56,141 the other one comes back to camp and we 3540 02:37:00,360 --> 02:36:58,660 swap out the batteries recharge it and 3541 02:37:03,421 --> 02:37:00,370 get ready to send it out a couple hours 3542 02:37:06,511 --> 02:37:03,431 later and that way maintain surveillance 3543 02:37:09,511 --> 02:37:06,521 over an area or hopefully over a target 3544 02:37:11,490 --> 02:37:09,521 throughout the night I'll tell you what 3545 02:37:13,200 --> 02:37:11,500 please keep us informed Jeff it just 3546 02:37:14,761 --> 02:37:13,210 sounds fascinating that you're making 3547 02:37:16,400 --> 02:37:14,771 some progress here and we'll get some 3548 02:37:19,290 --> 02:37:16,410 real answers in the very near future 3549 02:37:20,520 --> 02:37:19,300 Jeff Meldrum please tell our listeners 3550 02:37:23,131 --> 02:37:20,530 where they can find more information 3551 02:37:25,261 --> 02:37:23,141 about what you do well I'd like to 3552 02:37:27,720 --> 02:37:25,271 encourage the viewers to go to the relic 3553 02:37:30,060 --> 02:37:27,730 hominid inquiry for some good scholarly 3554 02:37:34,320 --> 02:37:30,070 treatment of the subject that's an ISU 3555 02:37:36,421 --> 02:37:34,330 edu slash RHI my publication Sasquatch 3556 02:37:39,841 --> 02:37:36,431 legend meets science can be had through 3557 02:37:41,790 --> 02:37:39,851 Amazon a great starting point and I've 3558 02:37:44,250 --> 02:37:41,800 also written a couple of field guides 3559 02:37:46,470 --> 02:37:44,260 the most recent of which is sort of a 3560 02:37:49,020 --> 02:37:46,480 synopsis of these dual principles we've 3561 02:37:52,591 --> 02:37:49,030 been discussing about relic hominids if 3562 02:37:54,870 --> 02:37:52,601 you search my name under Amazon and look 3563 02:37:56,940 --> 02:37:54,880 for wild men a field guide for relic 3564 02:37:59,520 --> 02:37:56,950 hominid I think it'll be a good 3565 02:38:00,660 --> 02:37:59,530 jumping-off point you can find us on 3566 02:38:02,760 --> 02:38:00,670 Twitter with 3567 02:38:05,640 --> 02:38:02,770 our cast on Facebook and you could also 3568 02:38:07,950 --> 02:38:05,650 subscribe to the power cast plus the 3569 02:38:10,200 --> 02:38:07,960 power cast plus offers the commercial 3570 02:38:13,590 --> 02:38:10,210 free version of this show the after the 3571 02:38:15,719 --> 02:38:13,600 power cast podcast selections from Paul 3572 02:38:18,300 --> 02:38:15,729 Campbell's other side of truth audio and 3573 02:38:21,090 --> 02:38:18,310 video a lot more coming for the low 3574 02:38:22,710 --> 02:38:21,100 price of $4.99 a month you can also 3575 02:38:24,870 --> 02:38:22,720 subscribe for a full year or five years 3576 02:38:26,880 --> 02:38:24,880 or a lifetime we're offering some 3577 02:38:28,950 --> 02:38:26,890 samplers over at the power cast forums 3578 02:38:32,330 --> 02:38:28,960 by the way and we have links if you 3579 02:38:34,860 --> 02:38:32,340 check plus dot the power cast com go the 3580 02:38:37,230 --> 02:38:34,870 plus-2 off the power cast com to learn 3581 02:38:39,890 --> 02:38:37,240 more about the power cast plus a great 3582 02:38:43,080 --> 02:38:39,900 gift to those of your friends who enjoy 3583 02:38:45,260 --> 02:38:43,090 real studies of strange and unusual 3584 02:38:47,940 --> 02:38:45,270 events on the power cast 3585 02:38:51,450 --> 02:38:47,950 dr. Jeffrey Meldrum thank you for 3586 02:38:51,460 --> 02:39:03,610 [Music] 3587 02:39:10,011 --> 02:39:07,130 the para cast featuring gene Steinberg 3588 02:39:13,000 --> 02:39:10,021 and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted 3589 02:39:16,730 --> 02:39:13,010 presentation of making the impossible